Comments on: Status Report August 24th #2 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/ Details and Log reports of the search for the lost WWII Submarine, USS Grunion Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:57:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3 by: GEORGE E LOGUE http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30579 Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:04:51 +0000 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30579 Congratulations. The Japanese took me out to Wahoo 15 years ago for a wreath laying where it lays in 200 ft of water. The Russians never OK'D for us to dive on her. THEY HAVE BEEN catchoing their fishing nets on it for years. My brother died on Wahoo. Congratulations. The Japanese took me out to Wahoo 15 years ago for a wreath laying where it lays in 200 ft of water. The Russians never OK’D for us to dive on her. THEY HAVE BEEN catchoing their fishing nets on it for years. My brother died on Wahoo.

]]> by: John Hart http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30106 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 00:45:01 +0000 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30106 Correction to my epistle: See Corvina and Guarina on NAVSOURCE for pics of torpedo hits to subs, not Cavalla. These are on surface but give idea of the results. Lots of other plausible answers to the how, but the missing bow seems to indicate a fate similar to Tang's, not an 8cm shell hit. Also, Japanese sub is not likely. Despite Hollywood efforts to turn U-571 into Hunt for Red October, WWII subs attacking submerged subs on sound like Los Angeles SSNs is fantasy. I hope you are going to share the pics and videos in a national forum for all to see. We can pay our virtual respects to Logarto, Wahoo, and now Grunnion. Hopefully we have just begun to find and document these memorials to our fallen heros. Correction to my epistle: See Corvina and Guarina on NAVSOURCE for pics of torpedo hits to subs, not Cavalla. These are on surface but give idea of the results. Lots of other plausible answers to the how, but the missing bow seems to indicate a fate similar to Tang’s, not an 8cm shell hit. Also, Japanese sub is not likely. Despite Hollywood efforts to turn U-571 into Hunt for Red October, WWII subs attacking submerged subs on sound like Los Angeles SSNs is fantasy. I hope you are going to share the pics and videos in a national forum for all to see. We can pay our virtual respects to Logarto, Wahoo, and now Grunnion. Hopefully we have just begun to find and document these memorials to our fallen heros.

]]> by: John Hart http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30090 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:38:51 +0000 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30090 I have been following with keen interest for a year...great work! I suggest the following based upon the witness statements: I give less credence to Capt Aiura as he was busy conning his ship, dealing with damage, and directing his crew. He also had personal reasons to claim credit for his gun crews' success. Sub Lt Nakagawa gives us the key testimony as a more unbiased observer. The circling bubble trail ending in explosion is the unmistakeable description of a circling torpedo hit to the sub. If a circling torpedo hit the submarine in the forward torpedo room the sub would have initially broached (see the picture of Cavalla hit by torpedo on Navsource) which may have been interpreted by Aiura as surfacing and the explosion-caused water column would have followed shortly. There may have been an 8 CM hit at the same time but it certainly would not have resulted in the catastrophy that is described by Nakagawa and apparent from missing forward Torpedo room on the wreck. Other evidence indicates the Grunnion had 10 Torpedos left. The six fired would have resulted in four remaining in FWD torpedo room (all torpedos expended aft in last message). These could have been freed to the sea when the torpdeo hit and could account for the aft sections witnessed by Mr. Hamada and popping to surface could have been SbLT Nakagawas' black bar popping up. The torpedo bodies Hamada found forward of the ship could also have been the duds from the last two hits depending on post attack drift of ship versus torpedoes. If it really was a torpedo hit to forward torpedo room I don't think you are going to find an intact forward section (again, refer to pictures of subs hit by torpedos). It this hypothisis is true it is ironic that, of all the duds and misses, the last shot worked, maybe even magnetic exploder if they were still activated on Grunnion. Later analysis of early torpedo failures pointed to exploder problems when torpedo hit close to perpendicular to hull and, until remedied, led to skippers attempting to achieve larger impact angles (not sure if CDR Abele would have known...don't remember when this was revealed). First torpedo that hit and exploded seemed to be largest impact angle. Last two may have been less angle than indicated by Aiura (again, he was busy). You can test theory of shell hit to conning tower. If flooded it would not have imploded like the rest of hull. It may have imploded without altering shape of fairwater so it may not be apparent. Open hatch to crews' mess is interesting...did someone try to get out or did implosion blow it open? Just the musings of a WWII history buff, especially sub war. In real life I am a fighter pilot so I appologize to the real submariners out there for joining the conversation. I have been following with keen interest for a year…great work! I suggest the following based upon the witness statements: I give less credence to Capt Aiura as he was busy conning his ship, dealing with damage, and directing his crew. He also had personal reasons to claim credit for his gun crews’ success. Sub Lt Nakagawa gives us the key testimony as a more unbiased observer. The circling bubble trail ending in explosion is the unmistakeable description of a circling torpedo hit to the sub. If a circling torpedo hit the submarine in the forward torpedo room the sub would have initially broached (see the picture of Cavalla hit by torpedo on Navsource) which may have been interpreted by Aiura as surfacing and the explosion-caused water column would have followed shortly. There may have been an 8 CM hit at the same time but it certainly would not have resulted in the catastrophy that is described by Nakagawa and apparent from missing forward Torpedo room on the wreck. Other evidence indicates the Grunnion had 10 Torpedos left. The six fired would have resulted in four remaining in FWD torpedo room (all torpedos expended aft in last message). These could have been freed to the sea when the torpdeo hit and could account for the aft sections witnessed by Mr. Hamada and popping to surface could have been SbLT Nakagawas’ black bar popping up. The torpedo bodies Hamada found forward of the ship could also have been the duds from the last two hits depending on post attack drift of ship versus torpedoes. If it really was a torpedo hit to forward torpedo room I don’t think you are going to find an intact forward section (again, refer to pictures of subs hit by torpedos). It this hypothisis is true it is ironic that, of all the duds and misses, the last shot worked, maybe even magnetic exploder if they were still activated on Grunnion. Later analysis of early torpedo failures pointed to exploder problems when torpedo hit close to perpendicular to hull and, until remedied, led to skippers attempting to achieve larger impact angles (not sure if CDR Abele would have known…don’t remember when this was revealed). First torpedo that hit and exploded seemed to be largest impact angle. Last two may have been less angle than indicated by Aiura (again, he was busy). You can test theory of shell hit to conning tower. If flooded it would not have imploded like the rest of hull. It may have imploded without altering shape of fairwater so it may not be apparent. Open hatch to crews’ mess is interesting…did someone try to get out or did implosion blow it open? Just the musings of a WWII history buff, especially sub war. In real life I am a fighter pilot so I appologize to the real submariners out there for joining the conversation.

]]> by: Mike Brodie http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30086 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:37:17 +0000 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30086 Congratulations on your location of the U.S.S. Grunion's final dockage. I hope this helps the relatives of our Warriors to finally find peace in knowing what really happened to their loved one's ship and in viewing the excellent images; know what the effect of water pressure can be upon those vessels which ply below the surface of distant seas protecting our Nation's interests and are damaged/destroyed in the course of battle. God Bless them all! Congratulations on your location of the U.S.S. Grunion’s final dockage.

I hope this helps the relatives of our Warriors to finally find peace in knowing what really happened to their loved one’s ship and in viewing the excellent images; know what the effect of water pressure can be upon those vessels which ply below the surface of distant seas protecting our Nation’s interests and are damaged/destroyed in the course of battle.

God Bless them all!

]]> by: Gene http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30081 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:03:39 +0000 http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2007/08/24/status-report-august-24th-2/#comment-30081 Bravo Zulu!!!! Amazing discovery and excellent photos. Being retired Navy; I've watched with interest the development and discovery of the Grunion. During the twilight of my tour with the Navy, I was attached to the USS Heron (MHC-52) and an active member of the mine warfare community. Having spent countless hours searching for the preverbal needle-in-the-hay-stack I can appreciate the tediousness of finding a submarine in the vastness of our oceans. Again, congrats on the discovery and exciting photos, looking forward to more information. Bravo Zulu!!!! Amazing discovery and excellent photos. Being retired Navy; I’ve watched with interest the development and discovery of the Grunion. During the twilight of my tour with the Navy, I was attached to the USS Heron (MHC-52) and an active member of the mine warfare community. Having spent countless hours searching for the preverbal needle-in-the-hay-stack I can appreciate the tediousness of finding a submarine in the vastness of our oceans. Again, congrats on the discovery and exciting photos, looking forward to more information.

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