Thanks for viewing our website and your interest in our project.
If you have any information that might help us with our search,
If you want to share memories of a USS Grunion crewmember,
If you would like to wish us good luck,
If you could share stories about the Aleutian Islands and the Bearing Sea,
If you know something about submarines or WWII submarine history,
If you are a family member of a USS Grunion crewmember,
then, please add a comment here. (The most recent comments and submission form are at bottom of this page)
Information about Crew Member families will be added to our Crew member Relations list. We are publishing a list of crewmembers who’s families have not yet been found. If you know of someone on this list, Please contact us.
Alternatively, You can email information to Bruce Abele directly at mbabele@999info.net
Hola :
I want to wish you and your party the best of
discovery luck. I think you are using one of the right
tools and GPS navigation should allow you to make the
map you need.
I checked out the web site and links and based
on your information I’m supposing that the search site
is just north of the red star(macarthur). As you know,
I’m working a number of colleagues addressing
submarine landsliding north of Kiska and also in
locating small undersea volcanoes. So what ever mosaic
of SS images you come up with will also be of interest
to us. So keep us in mind.
By the way, when I first visited Dutch in 1965
I was stunned by the small size of the submarine
repair pens for the S boats assigned up there. A fleet
boat the size of the Grunion could not have gotten
into the slip. I think I took pictures. The navy base
was just rotting away. The old WWII airport OPs
building, since torn down and then rebuilt! was still
there. At one time it was the only place to get a bunk
for the night.
Again, best of hunting and, if you get a
moment, let me know what’s going on.
Cheers,
Dave
I would like to encourage any surviving family member of any one of the men of the Grunion to leave a message here. We would like to compile a list of the names and addresses of all known surviving family members of the Grunion.
The Grunion and it men belong to history, to the people of the United States, but, especially to the family members of the crew. The men of the Grunion bore the burden of the fighting and,sadly, paid the ultimate price. The surviving family members have borne the burden of the Grunion’s loss for the last 64 years. We all have a common bond.
Inevitably, the search for the Grunion will start to accumulate publicity. When that happens, we expect surviving family members to look at this website. Once that happens, please “report in” so that we have an opportunity to communicate with you.
Jim McMahon, second son of Lieut. John Merton McMahon, USN
I am the niece of Ryder “Red” Mathison. It is enlightening to see that after 64 years there are others who are still communicating and researching about the loss of the Grunion.
Ryder has one surviving sister , one daughter, and one grandson. He had numerous nieces and nephews who are in their 60’s and 70’s and great nieces and nephews. Some, like myself, did not have the honor to know him, as we were born at least 4 years after the Grunion disappeared.
I would be happy to give the names and addresses of all the Mathison relatives that I have.
Lynne Blinco Earle
Good luck and God speed
Dear Abele Brothers,
I wish you all the best in your search for the USS GRUNION. After spending the past year working on behalf of the USS LAGARTO, I totally appreciate the value of what you are doing. It is a daunting venture, but almost nothing in your lives will be more worthwhile. Your father would be so proud of you - as well as your mother, grandparents, and other family members who lost someone greatly loved. My belief has always been that as long as the lost submariners are remembered, they are honored.
My thoughts and prayers are with you and all the other familly members who lost someone on the USS GRUNION.
Sincerely,
Nancy Mabin Kenney
Daughter of SM1 William T. Mabin, USS LAGARTO
In 1942, I was seven years old. My mother answered an early morning phone call in our home in Sioux City, Iowa. She hung up and started to cry. Her brother, Ryder Mathison, was missing in action on the Grunion. That is the only time I ever saw her cry - except upon the death of my grandmother 11 years later.
I have very vague memories of my uncle Ryder, but the entire family was saddened for years. I later met his daughter, Betty, who is now deceased.
My sister, Lynne Earle, has written you - but she was not born until 1946. The loss of Ryder was a wound left in the Mathison family that never really healed.
Good luck, and I hope the final resting place of so many young men is at last found.
Carol Denmead
Green Valley, AZ
husband of sister of edward earl knowles/ wondering how to recive his navy papersand purple heart / if you can help her we would thank you so much. she is the last one of his family,
good luck fred s kendrick/251/943/5896
Good Luck! I know that you will all have success. For the men & families who lost someone, thank you for the most profound sacrifice.
Mr. Kendrick,
Someone should have already recieved the purple heart. In the case of my relative, it has passed on to a nephew of his- this nephew is my uncle. As for ordering his service records you can go to NARA at this address http://www.archives.gov/veterans/military-service-records/get-service-records.html It is free for veterans and next of kin but costs to anyone else. Since your wife is his daughter you might can use her birth certificate to prove kinship and get the free copy.
My great uncle was Paul Edward Banes. My grandmother had always wondered what the story was behind her brother’s disappearance. All she knew was that he was on the Grunion, that it disappeared in the Aleutians on it’s maiden voyage, and that no one told them much of anything. She had heard it was “friendly fire” but really didn’t know. She’s gone now along with her sister and other brother but she instilled that question of “what happened” in me so I’ve tried to learn what I could about Paul Banes. Then I recieved an email from Bruce Abele (much to my wonderment and great delight) which told me of the upcoming hunt for the sub! It also turns out he transcribed in his story a few of the letters sent back to his mother from the crewmembers families -one of which happened to be from Paul’s mother Nellie Waddell. I hope we can find all the families so they too can see all that is transpiring…. Have a great day all!
Rhonda Raye (great-niece of Paul Edward Banes)
I am the Vice Commander of the White Mountain Sub Base in Overgaard/Heber Arizona.
Last year we did some research for Doreen Lee Barnes. of Overgaard, Az. She shared with me her mother’s first husband was Ryder “Red” Mathison EM1(SS), and I found information about the Grunion (SS216) which he was lost on. This filled in many blanks for her to share with her children about Ryder. I will share this new information with her, as well as make the news available to our Chapter members during the White Mountain Sub Base Chapter meeting Saturday, August 17th, during our “Tolling of the Bells” for lost submarines and crews. (64 yeas since its loss.)
It is exciting to see that the search, now may have the same results, as the finding of the Lagarto earlier this year. Hopefully, one day, all 48 lost submarines will be located and our Stars and Stripes will be proudly and honorably flying at their locations.
We are truly “A Last Man Standing Organization” and it is so wonderful to know that our valiant crew members will finally be found and their eternal patrol can be shared with
the whole world. My prayers are with the families and friends of those that served on the Grunion. “May your friends be your comfort and strength”.
Congratulations to all of you and God Bless You for your committment and hard work.
Dick Jarenski YN1(SS)
Vice Commander White Mountain Subase
As a current member (16 years so far) of the US Navy (as is my wife) and a long time student of US Naval history, I am pleased to read that the search team believes that they have located the final resting place of GRUNION, LCDR Abele, and the rest of her brave crew.
To the folks of the search team, keep up the outstanding work. May your efforts be rewarded with success.
To the family and friends of GRUNION, may the Peace of the Lord be always with you.
I’m amazed and thrilled that they may have located the USS Grunion, I am the Grandson (Stephen Kamei) of Ryder Mathison.
My mother Betty (Mathison) Kamei who past away in 1999 would have been ecstatic, she was always researching what really happened to her father, but never had any real answers, as well as my Grandmother Violet (Mathison) Barnes who past in 2002. I wish they were here to see this. My Aunt Pearl (Bobbi) Mathison I’m sure will be amazed after 60 plus years they may have found the Grunion. I sent her an email this morning.
Thanks to the internet more information and answers have been available to the family’s in just the last few years then the 60 years preceding the Grunion’s missing status.
Congratulations to the crew and everyone involved I think even at this point you’ve accomplished more then ever expected.
Good luck,that the search
Buenos Aires,Argentina
My mother’s (Violet Mathison Barnes) first husband was Ryder Mathison, who was the father to my half sisters,Bobbie and Betty Mathison. My mother would tell me how much she Loved Ryder, and the stories she would tell me about how hard it was for her, Betty be very little and Bobbie, still to be born, when she got a life changing message at her door. Even though my mother Violet and sister Betty has passed on now, I feel the closesure for them and know that in their hearts they are very greatful to everyone that has put so much time and money to find the USS Grunion, and to to remind us that each and everyone of us, owe our freedom to the men that lost their lives.
I would like to add a very special thank you to my friend Richard Jarenski, for all his hard work and keeping Ryder’s family in his heart….
Samuel Artist Templeton Gunners Mate First Class, USS Grunion, US Navy is my uncle. His father Artist Templeton is my Grandfather. He has three siblings, a sister and two brothers all
deceased. His mothers name is Belle. I have a newspaper clip of the Commander of the USS Grunion, Lt. Comd Mannert L. Abele of Quincy, Mass. I also have letters my uncle wrote to his family prior to being assigned to the Grunion. I will be happy to share any of this with you. I was contacted by Rhonda Raye.
Tom Templeton
1099 Heathwood West Dr.
Cookeville, TN 38506
931-432-5613
tomtempleton@charter.net
Best of luck to everyone! I think that your doing something really special for a lot of people!
Just read the article in the Boston Globe and that led me to do a google search to here…
I wish you the best of luck in your search. I served aboard the USS Michigan (SSBN 727 Gold) in and around those waters, so I can identify with the hazards associated there. Having been a Submariner for 16 years also gives me a great respect for those still on eternal patrol. Again, good luck, and good hunting.
To Art Wright, the Abele brothers, search crew and my friends at Williamson. Congratulations and well done! Guy
Congratulations. The pictures are amazing. I know alot of hard work went into making this happen. I never meet my Great-uncle Merritt Graham but I did grow up hearing of his exploits in WWI and WWII as a submariner. I cannot even imagine what it must have been like to be on one of these submarines.
I think this quest is even more important today, we are losing so many of our WWII veterans and I hope they know we remember them and their brave sacrifice.
Thank you to the Abele’s for letting me share in this adventure.
Vickie Rodgers
My sister and I, Therese and Ronald Bedard, were the only two children of Leo Joseph I. Bedard, when he left for the last time in 1941. For the next 61 years, we believed the Grunion had been sunk by “friendly fire”. In 2002 we first heard that a different fate had befallen him, and now we are excited to learn that the submarine might have actually been found. I was 8 and my sister was 5 when he disappeared.
His wife, our mother, died a couple of years ago, at age 94. She never forgot him, even though she was married and widowed and married again. He was her Leo.
God bless the dedication with which the search for the Grunion was maintained all these years, and thank you from our hearts that it was made possible, and (we hope) successful. We’re happy to share family stories on the website. My search for my father took me to research my “roots”, and traced him back to the original Isaac Bedard who arrived in Canada from France in 1663, a master carpenter. I wish my mother could hear this tale of discovery. Good luck and God speed in the search.
I am so excited for all of the family members of the USS Grunion. My uncle was on board on the USS Lagarto, which was found last year and this last may there was a memorial service held in WI for them. It was amazing to see all of the family members of the different sailors and to be able to finally put all doubts to rest and to complete the greiving process with a memorial service where we were able to say good-bye. My prayers are with you.
Sherri A Clifton
neice of George Clark Harrington
MOMM3 USS Lagarto
“Thank you” seems so inadequate to say in this circumstance. My brother, Ronald, wrote a response, and I’ll be sending a much longer response shortly. We loved our Dad. His loss profoundly changed our family. I do believe the men’s love never left us. For instance, the War Orphan’s Bill allowed me to go to college; in effect, my Dad paid for it. You may be interested to hear this story. Because the ship was “lost in Action” but no definitive death was declared, my Mom waited for years in case he would be found as a prisoner of war. We never had the opportunity to grieve his death. As an adult, I realized we had never held a Mass for him as we never had a body. People didn’t do that kind of thing years ago. So we held a Funeral Mass about ten years ago. I placed his picture on the altar, with a bouquet of roses next to it. My folk group traveled to sing, and people from my parish and the parish where I was working attended, as well as my Mom and her husband. It was very sad, but allowed some of the grief and community support to be experienced. Our Dad’s loss affected us in so many ways. Your discovery gives me hope. Hope that we can finally honor the men of the Grunion, and perhaps meet some of the other people who have walked together, without knowing each other. God bless you. We share a bond. Your Dad must have been a man of ingegrity, warmth, personal strength and intelligence. I read somewhere that your Mom wrote to every family connected with the ship. I don’t have that letter, but I am grateful for her kindness.
As things slow down because of the weather in Alaska, I’d like to take the time to thank everyone involved in the search for the Grunion. THANK YOU.
I’d also like to thank Rhonda Raye for including me in the search for relatives, I’ve gotten alot of joy from the relative search. Talking to the nicest lady in Iowa, Mrs. Ray Boo and learning about the exciting life and career of Trudie Kornahrens has been a pleasure. I’ve gotten to talk to so many wonderful families, and I even enjoyed the middle of the night call from Alaska…you know who you are.
I hope we will be able to find a familiy member for every lost crewman, if we don’t, its not from lack of trying.
I want to encourage families to post a remark, share stories and pictures. This is history.
Thanks to everyone involved, I’ve enjoyed my small participation.
Vickie Rodgers, great-niece of Merritt Dayton Graham
just learned of the search for the grunion and am overcome with emotion all these years later. the day our mother received the telegram is one of my earliest memories. on behalf of my sister and other family members, thank you for all your extraodinary efforts. our fathers were exceptional men.
john w. nobles, jr.
apple valley california
If you have not already done so, I’d like to encourage all members of the Grunion extended family to send in photos of and information about their loved ones who were lost with the boat. You may submit material either to the ussgrunion.com website, or to the online memorial, http://www.OnEternalPatrol.com.
Each crew member now has a personal memorial page on the “On Eternal Patrol” site. I welcome comments, additions, and corrections. Please contact me via email: info@OnEternalPatrol.com.
Thank you!
Charles Hinman
USS Bowfin Submarine Museum & Park
Honolulu, Hawaii
http://www.OnEternalPatrol.com
I want to take the opportunity to say thank you to the Abele brothers, the crew on The Aquila and Vickie Rodgers. You have given my family an invaluable gift —- closure. On behalf of my mom Phyllis Boo (Robert Boo’s sister-in-law), my two sisters, Nancy & Tricia, your very hard work, dedication and extraordinary sacrifice has touched us deeply. Just to say thank you seems so inadequate for that other than to say God bless you all and keep you safe. Unfortunately, Robert’s three brothers and parents are gone. They would be so proud. Somehow, I think they know. John, Bruce and Brad you have deeply touched our hearts for the love of your father.
Sincerely,
Carole Boo-Harrington
Niece of Robert Boo
I have always been fascinated about WWII Submarines, I have always had a place in my heart for the Grunion, lost in the freezing waters of the North Pacific without a trace, and you guys found her so fast, that is so cool.
I just hope that family members can find some closure in what happened to their brave Sailors over 60 years ago.
Todd Jardine
Woods Cross, Utah
My uncle,Patrick Paul Sulivan, PHM1 was on the USS Grunion (SS216),July 30, 1942. My father, Stanley R. Sullivan, Paul’s brother, has always prayed to hear some recovery of the USS Grunion. He loved his brother and what a loss and shock to loose him in the fashion he did. We just found out tonight from a friend in Akron, Ohio that the Akron Beacon Journal was looking for someone who knew Paul. Sadly, I guess this news didn’t hit California as we would have loved to know this latest accomplishment. My father may be able to put some closure on the loss of his brother with these findings. These men were so brave and I am sure that they have a place close to God’s heart-I know that my uncle has a place in mine. If he was anything like my father he had to be a great guy. My father has told us about Paul and we can only feel that he was a bright, funny man with a great disposition and good outlook as he bravely stepped out to fight for his country. His kindness was great as told in the stories by my father. Even in todays age, I can feel the sadness that my father must have in loosing his brother the way that he did. I can not even imagine but, with prayer and hope my father displays the strength and courage to try to understand what happened to the USS Grunion. Paul sounded amazing and now as I walk by and look at the picture and dedication written to my grandmother, I feel that God has answered some of our prayers and put some closure on the mystery of the the Eternal Patrol of the USS Grunion. It is with no wonder that the true movie the Fighting Sullivans is one of my favorite movies. I have watched it and feel the emotions that must have come to so many families at wartime. My grandmother,Florence Sullivan from Akron, Ohio hung her star in the window upon notice of Paul’s disappearance. She also spoke to the mother of the five boys in the movie and shared their stories of worries and fear as the search for the ship continued. My heartfelt prayers go out to all of the families who have lost loved ones in this patrol. May closure, with this finding of the USS Grunion, come to the families and faith, hope and love remain in their hearts. Respectfully, a proud niece of Paul Patrick Sullivan. God Bless him.
(This is an email recieved from Kitty Fleischman.)
Hello, Charles:
It was like an electric shock Saturday morning when we heard your story about finding what appears to be the Grunion. In 1999 we went to Unalaska with a friend who lost her fiancé on the boat.
Evelyn Switzer lived on Long Island , and was engaged to Slyvester “Ken” Kennedy when the Grunion disappeared. A chaplain and an officer visited her at her work to tell her he was “missing.” That was all the Navy knew, and all that she knew until 1996 when someone at her church, who was retired from the Navy, heard her story and told her he could find out something for her.
He told her that the Grunion was lost in the Aleutians , and its fate was unknown, that it had disappeared without a distress call. She hadn’t known where the boat was, where it was lost, and at least knowing where he had been gave her some comfort.
Because she was told the boat was “missing,” she thought Ken would be home when the war was over. She knew he couldn’t be dead, and whe waited for him…for many years. Evelyn said after the war, everyone started to come home. She waited for several years, but, by the time she realized that Ken was not going to be coming back, she’d built up such a fantasy about their life together, that no real flesh and blood human could ever live up to the dreams she had built for them. Evelyn never married.
She became a dear friend when worked for me for several years when I owned The Idaho Business Review. When I sold that in 1999, I asked Evelyn if she would like to go to Dutch Harbor with my husband and me. We had strong ties to Alaska , as I worked at the Nome Nugget in 1979, where I met my husband, had never been to the Aleutians , and also were going to visit my son and grandkids in Wasilla.
Usually one to hem and haw at anything offered to her, I was prepared to debate Evelyn all day, if necessary, to get her to go on the trip. Uncharacteristically, Evelyn snapped at the opportunity to see where Ken had spent his last days.
The three of us went out to Unalaska for several days. We walked the town, and went to the little park that memorializes the defenders of the island. Evelyn put together a little box with a pair of tiny wooden shoes Ken had brought her from Holland in happier times, a poem she wrote to him, and his obituary, and other mementos. We stood on the old submarine dock, and Evelyn dropped the little box into the Bering Sea .
The next morning, Evelyn said that, for the first time in nearly 60 years, she felt closure and peace.
On December 27, 2005, Evelyn died of heart failure at her niece’s home in Boise . She was a month short of her 86th birthday. I keep reminding myself that she already knows where Ken is, but I understand the pain and longing the skipper’s sons felt through all of those years. Evelyn felt it too, and we longed to be able to call Evelyn and tell her the Grunion was found.
Please send Gerry’s and my thanks to the skipper’s sons for not forgetting their father, and for their dedication to that long search. Evelyn also would be proud of them.
Please keep us posted when they search ends.
Kitty Fleischman
I also would like to thank everyone who has been involved with locating the Grunion. I am the neice of Evelyn Switzer, whom Kitty Fleischman wrote about in a previous e-mail. Evelyn, or as we knew her, Evie, lived her entire life wondering about the fate of her beloved Ken (Sylvester Kennedy). We all grew up knowing of the tragedy, but never really understanding the true story of what had happened. My only regret is that my aunt died without the peace of mind of knowing for sure where the Grunion ended up. Thank you so much.
Lori Larson
My Grandfather was on the Grunion…Although I’ve never met him, the quest for the where abouts of the Grunion has been fresh in my mind for many years…I spent time in the marine corps and was stationed in Adak, Alaska………not knowing at the time my grandfathers sub laid close by………..My granmother still lives in western Pennsylvania……..she’s 86 now…she does’nt talk much about my granpa, but when she does it’s always a pleasure to listen to the stories…….She still does’nt know about the discovery of the Grunnion..She said once she did’nt want to know if they found it…………Thanks to the Able bros. I salute you…Semper Fi…………Ross Lehman
oops–I must have been overwhelmed with typing and reading and writing, et al a couple of nights ago upon learning about the discovery of the USS Grunion, I typed my response in the guestbook-in respect to my uncle, PAUL PATRICK SULLIVAN. In error, I typed Patrick Paul Sullivan-but I think all knew.
It has been an amazing couple of days with this news! God Bless all the families, friends of the courageous crew on the USS Grunion and God Bless America!!!!!
Thank you for your hard work. My uncle was a crewmember of the USS Grunion. I have always wondered if the boat would be found. Good work. Fair winds and following sea on your quest.
Mr. DeStoop,
Go back to the main ussgrunion.com page an you will see a link that reads
“Final Voyage- The story of the USS Grunion and ‘Jim’ as told by his son, Brad Abele”.
In the story are two transcribed letters that were written back to Mannart “Jim” Abele’s wife. One was from my gr-grandmother (mother of Paul Banes) and the other was from the fiance of Albert DeStoop!
Samuel Lunsford, my great uncle, was aboard this sub. He was one of five brothers. Y’all contacted my Dad about the sub being found. We always wondered what happened to it. I hope we will get more information. This is pretty fascinating and it is great that the ones who served our country so bravely will not be forgotten. Being the sub is down so deep I wonder how they will be able to view the wreckage or if it can be recovered or if recovery is even an option being it is a final resting place of so many. I will try to read more about this. I love the history of WWII. But there is nothing glamorous about war or killing. I wish we could all just get along, but it seems there is always evil at work in this world
There is an article on Paul Patrick Sullivan and the USS Grunion in the Akron Beacon Journal
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/community/15441433.htm
My brother, Albert E. DeStoop, served on the Grunion. As a boy and man I always wondered what had happened to the sub and all the brave men who sailed on her and if anyone would someday look for the sub and solve this mystery. Over the years, I kept all of them in my prayers and I am so grateful to Capt. Abele’s sons for helping the families of the Grunion’s crew find closure. God bless and God speed in your quest.
Delaware Newspaper article on the USS Grunion and Carson Martin\’s family
http://www.newszap.com/
Laurel woman may know her Navy father\’s fate, By Glenn Rolfe The Leader & State Register
Meryl Kretschmann of Laurel holds treasured memorabilia of her father, Carson Raymond Martin, and the American submarine, USS Grunion, which became a mystery with its disappearance during World War II in late July 1942 off the Aleutian Islands. Mrs. Kretschmann\’s father was among the 70 men lost on the Grunion, which may have been located.
By Glenn Rolfe, The Leader & State Register
LAUREL - From the depths of the Bering Sea off the far tip of the Aleutians may surface answers to a mysterious chapter in World War II history - and relief and a sense of closure for a 70-year-old Laurel woman.
Meryl Kretschmann - 6 years old and living in New York City with her older brother and mother when her father and 69 crew members on the American submarine USS Grunion disappeared in late July 1942 - believes the fate of her father, Carson Raymond Martin, may now be known.
\”I\’m so glad that they finally located my father. I was 6 years old when he died,\” said Mrs. Kretschmann, who resides with her husband Fred on U.S. 13A between Laurel and Seaford. \”The last year or two we have finally found out what happened to him; he\’s been an MIA (Missing in Action).\”
Mrs. Kretschmann said a research operation funded by one of the sons of the sub\’s command officers apparently located the USS Grunion, commissioned in December 1941 out of New London, Conn., following the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Mrs. Kretschmann said she was contacted last week by someone involved in the search for families of the missing men on the Grunion, which remained a mystery for more than 60 years after it disappeared in Dutch Harbor following a confrontation with a Japanese freighter, the Kano Maru.
\”They are quite sure of it, although it hasn\\\’t been totally confirmed. I think they would not have published this unless they were pretty sure that this is the Grunion,\” Mrs. Kretschmann said. \”Everybody is all excited. They are trying to find all of the families - you know Navy people are close to each other. They tracked me down and contacted me (Aug. 28).\”
According to the Grunion Web site, for more than 50 years the Navy knew nothing of the confrontation and carried the fate of the 70 men on board the Grunion as \”missing in action; cause unknown.\”
Noting the Grunion sank several enemy patrol vessels, the Navy Web site - http://www.navy.mil - states the \”patrol ended tragically, because contact was lost with the Grunion after 30 July, and she was never heard from again.\”
Mrs. Kretschmann said persistence by the sons of the USS Grunion\’s commander, Mannert L. Abele, kept the Grunion\’s fate from resting forever undiscovered on the ocean floor.
\”Over the years the three sons of the commander of the submarine never let it go. They kept researching and researching,\” Mrs. Kretschmann said.
According to the USS Grunion web site - http://www.ussgrunion.com - the fate of the U.S. submarine came to light several years ago through a Japanese interpreter and World War II buff who discovered and translated an article written by the superintendent of the Japanese freighter for a Japanese maritime magazine.
\”They found out through Internet this Japanese interpreter and WWII buff. They found out information about the freighter. The freighter said they had sunk my father\’s ship,\” Mrs. Kretschmann said. \”They were in a battle with a Japanese freighter in Aleutian Islands. They torpedoed one time … and three other torpedoes were duds. They surfaced and had a gun battle with the freighter and the freighter shot them in the conning tower and they disappeared. But it was never reported as to what happened to them.\”
Mrs. Kretschmann, who moved to Sussex County 10 years ago and operates a pet supply business with her husband, said she and family members of the Grunion\’s other crew members felt a sense of closure when they attended a tribute event at New London, Conn., in 1995.
\”We went up there, New London, in 1995 and they had a big parade for all of the 52 subs lost (in World War II). They have a park there where they have a monument for each of the 52 subs, \” said Mrs. Kretschmann. \”The VFW is involved with it. Every post is assigned a submarine - it just so happens that the Grunion had been assigned to a post in Ohio - and the first of each month they ring the bell and they read all of the names of the men that went down. They are never forgotten; they are eternal patrol.\”
\”We, at that time thought it was closure, not ever thinking that they would find out more information,\” she said.
Mrs. Kretschmann said her father, 32 at the time of the sub\\\’s disappearance, was a chief motor machinist\’s mate - in line to become a lieutenant.
\”He was going to be a lieutenant. He had done his test and everything,\” she said. \”It was just a matter of turning in his papers and getting them signed when he came back to shore.\”
Ironically, Mrs. Kretschmann said her father, a native of Baltimore, was from Bedford, Va. - the town that is home to the National D-Day Memorial for its many World War II military sacrifices in the D-Day invasion of Normandy.
Her father\’s birth date was Sept. 3.
Noting her mother passed away in 1993, Mrs. Kretschmann said she and her brother - 74-year-old Ronald Martin, a retired U.S. Navy man from Hicksville, N.Y., - apparently know the reason for the sub\’s disappearance and their father\’s watery grave almost a mile deep in the sea.
\”It has been exciting. It\’s on the side on an underwater mountain, about a mile down,\” said Mrs. Kretschmann. \”I\’ve always felt that my father has been with me, and he has been trying to tell me what happened to him.\”
News Editor Glenn Rolfe can be reached at 629-5505 or grolfe@newszap.com.
Mystery of a missing sub
WWII sailor lost at sea, but residents feel spirit
By Jim Carney
Sixty-four years after sailor Paul Patrick Sullivan was
lost at sea, new chapters in his story continue to be written.
Sullivan’s tale is not simply a war story about an Akron man who left home to join the Navy and died when his submarine disappeared in World War II.
It is a ghost story, and a saga of love, loss and reunion.
Sullivan joined the Navy after graduating from Garfield High School in 1933.
In 1940, he married Norma Wolff, who grew up next door to him on Neptune Avenue in Firestone Park.
He became a pharmacist’s mate 1st class.
On July 31, 1942, his submarine, the USS Grunion, disappeared off the coast of a Japanese-occupied island in the Aleutian chain of Alaska.
The sub had confronted a Japanese freighter before sinking, taking the Grunion’s 69 crew members with it.
After Sullivan’s death, a wooden sea trunk containing his personal belongings was shipped home to his parents, Basil and Florence Sullivan.
In 1969, when Patti and Fred Christ bought the old Sullivan home on Neptune, the empty sea trunk was still in the basement.
Over the years, Patti and other members of her family said they had seen the image of a man in their home, a man they believe to be the spirit of Paul Sullivan, who died at 27.
The first time Patti Christ saw him, she was sleeping on a couch. She said she saw Sullivan on a love seat.
She said she has seen a full-size body image of Sullivan once and other times has seen only his legs.
When her daughter was in high school, she confessed to her mother that she had seen something when she was a child.
“I want to know if anybody else has seen this besides me so I know I’m not crazy,” she told her mother.
In the early 1990s, she said, her grandson said he saw a man in the house who called him by his name.
After talking to neighbors, Christ, 59, who is retired from a trucking company, learned that Paul Sullivan had lived in the house and had died on the Grunion during World War II.
She said her family was never afraid of the man they often saw, and in fact welcomed him into their home.
When Dawn Kmet, now 36, Christ’s daughter, was a teenager, she said everybody who knew her family knew that the spirit of Sullivan was always present in their home.
One time, she said, she and her boyfriend even set up a video camera in the house in hopes of taping an image of the lost sailor.
Not knowing who lived in the Sullivan house on Neptune Avenue, Linda Sullivan of Castro Valley, Calif., the niece of Paul Sullivan, sent a letter to the home four years ago. She wrote that she and her father, Stanley Sullivan, and brother Arno and sister Kathy Nichols were coming to Akron and would like to see the house again.
Linda Sullivan and her family moved from Akron to California in 1961.
When the Sullivans arrived at their old family home on Neptune that year, they rang the doorbell and Christ answered.
They hit it off immediately.
Christ told them that she and her family felt they knew Paul.
While walking through the basement, the Sullivan clan spotted the sea trunk.
Christ described the Paul Sullivan she and her family had gotten to know to his family.
“What amazed my Dad was she was right on with his personality,” Linda Sullivan said. “She described how he looked and what he was about with no picture.”
Christ and Linda Sullivan became friends and often spoke or wrote e-mails to each other.
Stanley Sullivan, 79, now retired from the U.S. Postal Service and American Can Co., said he was 12 years younger than Paul.
Stanley had polio as a child and Paul helped him deal with the disease. Paul often would put him in a wagon and pull him around the neighborhood.
Search for sub
In late August, the Sullivans heard the news.
A large underwater mass believed to be the Grunion was found by an expedition led by Bruce, Brad and John Abele, the sons of Mannert L. Abele, commander of the submarine.
Bruce Abele, 76, of Newtonville, Mass., the oldest son, said the group, using side sonar, detected an underwater image that is clearly not a land mass.
He said the length and breadth of the image are consistent with what would be expected from the Grunion and the location is in the area where they figured the submarine would be.
He also said there is no evidence of other subs being sunk anywhere close.
“It’s very encouraging,” he said.
He said the group would likely go back to the spot next summer to attempt to get a better view of what he believes is his father’s submarine.
When word spread that the submarine may have been found, the Sullivans and Christs were elated.
Linda Sullivan said the expected discovery of the Grunion “doesn’t take the pain of losing someone special away,” but does bring some closure for the family.
She said it brings the family “a step closer to what happened” and that can bring some relief.
Her father said he is “grateful” that the sub may have been found, and said there now can be “peace and closure.”
In the backyard of Christ’s house is a piece of a maple tree that was cut down several years ago.
The tree was the one planted in Sullivan’s memory by his mother after he was killed.
“It feels like he is a member of the family,” she said.
Trunk to stay
She said anytime the Sullivans want the trunk back, she would be happy to let them have it.
And Linda Sullivan said the family would like the trunk back some day, knowing that Patti Christ would give it back to the family “in a heartbeat.”
She said she believes the trunk is where Paul wants it to be.
For now, the trunk will remain in the house on Neptune.
Linda Sullivan said she regrets she never knew her uncle.
The Sullivans will visit Akron in mid-October and once again will stop by the Neptune Avenue home to visit the Christs.
That the Christs have gotten to know Paul Sullivan, she said, is comforting.
“I have always believed that there is something to the other side,” she said. “It is not anything to fear.”
And Dawn Kmet said she feels her family’s home on Neptune has in a way been “heaven” for Paul Sullivan, the sailor who died seven decades ago.
“To us, he is someone we care about,” she said.
“We love his family. We want him to be found.”
For more on the search for the USS Grunion, go to http://www.ussgrunion.com.
Jim Carney can be reached at 330-996-3576 or jcarney@thebeaconjournal.com.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE A MONTH MAKES!!!
Less than a month ago, Vickie Rodgers “found me”. I’m Nancy Kornahrens Stark, daughter of Lt. William G. Kornahrens, lost on the Grunion. I never knew my Dad and was born a month after the sub went missing. My Mom, Trudie Tripp Kornahrens, spent nearly her entire life in Poughkeepsie, NY, never remarried, and died about six years ago. She would have been thrilled with the recent search.
The entire Grunion family is indeed blessed by the Abele sons who provided both the passion and the funding for this amazing search.
How exciting to be reunited and to begin to get some answers to so many, many questions.
With heartfelt gratitude,
Nancy Kornahrens Stark
Bruce, It was a pleasure meeting you here in Cold Bay. Thank you for your time and I hope to see you here again in 2007. I wish you and your family the best of luck. Kind Regards.
Request for help with the remaining sailors. Since everyone here is scattered around the country- I’m requesting ya’lls help finding the remaining families. Please look over at the link called “Lost Grunion family contacts”. If you live in or near the hometown listed for the sailor or someplace that has microfilm records of newspapers from those towns, some leads might be in the articles that came out when they went MIA. Of the 4 articles I have, the dates included are Sept 30, Oct 1, and Oct 2, 1942. So that would be the expected date range to look- who knows could be a wider range but somewhere close to there. We don’t need the articles for Miller,Pickel not Pancoast - I already have the two former and hopefully the last one will come soon-unfortunately Pickel’s, although interesting, didn’t help much. These are the towns the government had listed for their next of kin so someone should have been living there but if not then there may not even be an article if the family had moved on. Thanks.
Hello Everyone:
I just wanted the families to know that I found alot of genealogy while doing the FAMILY SEARCH and if they are interested they can email me at svr5svr@aol.com, also if anyone wants more information on the crew families we have left to find, I’d be more than willing to share this information. Have a Great Day!
My cousin Leon Henry Franck was a member of the Grunion crew. We have been searching for solid information since 1942.The research you’re conducting is fantastic. It will be gratifying to finally learn how the Grunion was engaged by the enemy and sunk. Hopefully your hard work will eventually lead to closure for all the families who lost loved ones in this terrible tragedy. Please keep up your wonderful work.
My uncle was Frank Thomas Nave, Motor Machinist’s Mate second class.. I have several newspapers articles and the western union telegraph telling family he was reported missing in action. Also his purple heart and several other certificates. The submergence cruisograph, honor of memory signed by Lyndon B. Johnson, grateful memory, signed by Franklin D. Roosevelt. I was so grateful to hear from Vickie Mayfield.
Wonderful and respectful site. I am unable to go into the part listing the missing families of the crew as webtv is very limited in what it will do, but if any of these crew-members or their families were ever around the Dallas-Ft.Worth area I will help you all I can. Just contact me. Blessings ! And Good Luck in your search for the missing crew-members families.
I read your story on cnn.com and am amazed/inspired that the Abele group has had to hire the sonar-expedition teams on their own… I would think that in light of the images detected, that the second expedition (w/underwater cameras) would be covered by the US Navy. I commend your dedication, and stories like this make me honored to be an American. I will be following this story to it’s conclusion. Please advise if there is a trust to which contributions for the search may be remitted. Best of luck in finding the crew of the USS Grunion, bringing peace to their families, and resolving this piece of untold American history.
Ms. Brown,
Thank you for the kind offer- believe it or not I just looked through the list and there weren’t any men from TX. At least their last registered (with the navy) next of kin didn’t have TX addresses. Some of the addresses are just where they were based at the time so that is where their wives lived and two gave family members that were also in the military- they will be hard to track! That is all we have to start with until census records, obituaries and such tell us where to go from there. One can figure that someone somewhere either before or after must have or have had a relative in TX- how could they miss it! Anyway thank you for your offer and if anything comes up I may be hollerin’ back at you for help!
I’d love for this mystery to be solved. FIrst for the families and then for historys sake. However, the image appears to me to be that of a surface ship. I’m going by the shadow which seems to clearly show the profile of a superstucture that resembles a destroyer or frigate of some type. The CNN article that called my attention to this mystery mentioned that the Grunion attacked and sank two anti-sub chasers. Could this be one of those. And if so, could the Grunion be laying nearby yet undiscovered. Further exploration may bring closure for Grunion family members and perhaps Japanese family members of the sunken sub chasers too. I hope we get the answers the Grunion heros deserve.
It is so exciting and so poignant to read the newest information about the USS Grunion. My grandfather, Merritt Graham, was one of the crewman lost on the USS Grunion. My father, Arthur Graham,who died in 1969 and who was also a sumariner, was devastated by the loss of his father. I am awaiting the birth of my first grandchild, who will be named Evan Graham Cela. It is all the more ironic that the Grunion was possibly located at the almost the exact day of my grandson’s birth. It is as if m y grandfather will always be looking out for him. Please add me to the list of family members. Thank you and God Bless you for your perseverance.
I was overcome with emotion when I was contacted by Vickie Rogers last Sunday. The reason I guess it took so long, was the fact that when my mother remarried, my last name was changed from Thomas to Stephens thru adoption.
I can still remember when my father, Millener, left for duty to report to the USS Grunion. I was only three years old and had to be held since I had scarlet fever. I have correspondence to various Naval & Government Officials that my grandmother & mother sent concerning the loss of the Grunion but all came back with more questions than answers. I wish they were both here today to witness this great Web Page. Prior to my mother\’s death she shared with me the last letters she received from my father and also the telegram informing her of the loss. I have also been in touch with Ret. Capt Ralph Styles (class mate of my father at the Naval Academy) since he had been a submarine commander and had some knowledge of this search but was not informed of this web page. This web page has answered many questions concerning my father & the Grunion. I had no idea the Grunion received the Naval Cross, sinking of the two sub-chasers, rescue mission, etc. The first time on the web page I clicked on the Grunion Crew and there was a picture of the crew\’s party with both my parents included and with the next click, my fathers picture detailing his short Naval Career. I have now read all the articles which is truly amazing.
Congratulations to the Search Crew and everyone else involved, including the Abele\’ Sons who started the ball rolling. I cannot put into words the emotion I have had this past week.
God Bless the USS GRUNION and the CREW & God Bless America,
Peter THOMAS Stephens
Yes Vickie did alot of work trying to track you down and did find out about the name change. Alot of your family probably have had letters or phone calls from her! The search in itself was interesting as she would forward what she found out to me- You might want to ask her about it all sometime!
If you scroll down on the search blog you will find the commissioning party photo that I numbered- would you tell us which ones are your parents. There is a place below the pic for “comments” As we learn their names I add them in on the numbered copy on my computer.
Since Capt. Styles was a contemporary of your fathers perhaps he can help on Arthur G Newcomb on the Grunion. His mother was listed as his next of kin- Bertha M Newcomb address: US Veterans Administration Los Angeles, CA. Mrs. Abele found out his father was Major E. B. Newcomb. We are not certain of his first name but think it may be Erwin. Would this man ring any bell with Capt. Styles?
Mr. Stephens
It’s late and that is my excuse for being stupid! Of course Millener is already identified- he was one of those already identified before Bruce Abele ever found me back in July and of course my first project was to figure out who was my Paul Banes! Can we assume Milliner’s wife is the lady sitting beside him?
Rhonda Raye
Received your phone message regarding Jack Pancoast, our brother, a crew member of the USS Grunion. We immdediately viewed the website and and the picture of the crew party with wives. We believe that #24 is Jack Pancoast and #25 is Julia Christine his wife, however it has been many years since we have seen Jack. We will continue to view the website and if any updates occur please keep in touch.
Mr. Knight,
Glad you were able to check out this site! Perhaps there are some pics around your family that might clinch Jack and Julia’s identities in the group photo. If you have a pic of Jack Pancoast and some info about him you would like to submit to the website “On Eternal Patrol” I know they would love to have it. You’ll find the link on the ussgrunion homepage. I had phoned and wrote to the library in Pittsburgh trying to get the MIA article for Pancoast to get a lead on his family . Do you already have a copy? If so then I’ll call and cancel my request. You can email me at rrrstar@wmconnect.com Also if you have any other pics/docs related to Pancoast and the Grunion you would like submitted to this site, send to the webmaster or you can send to me and I’ll forward them on. You can also post a short bio of Pancoast to this guestbook if you like. I know I’d like to learn a little about him - I was never able to find him in the 1920 nor 1930 census. The leads came from letters his mother wrote to Mrs. Abele and also Mrs Abele’s notes when she contacted the families.
I am so excited about the discovery of the Grunion!! My Grandmother, Dad, and uncles, would also be so gratful. My Grandmother had four sons in the Navy, only Uncle Hollice was lost. I lived my whole life hearing about him and the Grunion. I wish they were still alive to experience this event. I am so gratful to the Abele brothers for persuing in this wonderful endeaver and for Vickie Rodgers for locating me.
Sandra Henderson Woodson
Niece of Hollice Beauford Henderson
Today Show
Bruce:
The producer at the Today Show say the Grunion segment is most likely to air between 8:30 and 9:00. No guaraantee. They make last minute shifts depending upon breaking news.
My Great Uncle, Torpedoman’s Mate 3rd Class Carmine Parziale was lost aboard USS Grunion. I never really thought too much about my Grandfather’s lost brother, not until my husband was stationed at the sub base in Groton, CT. Our first day on base, I saw a street sign with the name USS Grunion, the 1942 date and that 70 souls had gone down with her. I made a phone call and then another…Grunion was the name of the sub that Uncle Carmine had gone down on, and it was then that I had learned that Electric Boat had built her, and that she was one of Groton’s own. I had first read an artice published by the Groton Base newspaper on the Grunion in 2004. I believe that I may be able to get copies of it through archives.
If by any chance, my living Great Uncle, Francis Gerber reads this as he has submitted information to Eternal Patrol website… I am Vince’s grandaughter, and I serve as the Ombudsman for Naval Healthcare New England. My husband is an enlisted Electronics Technician who works out of Newport, Rhode Island and Groton, CT. Groton has much information about the lost subs which were commissioned out of their facility. I may be contacted either at constance.bowen@nhcne.med.navy.mil or at bowenconstance@yahoo.com
I had an Uncle I never met aboard the USS Grunion Carmine A Parziale, he was my father Vincent Parziale’s brother. My uncle died before I was born but still remember the stories and pictures my family showed me of him. I am sorry I never got to know him.
I was watching a program this morning on the History Channel about Pearl Harbor. When they were showing the ships and locations in the harbor, they mentioned the USS California. before my dad volunteered for submarine service he was on the California. I thought to myself, if he stayed on board his fate may have been the same. i guess that says something about destiny.
In putting together our family tree, we’ve discovered that one of our uncles may have served on the USS Grunion. His name was Ricardo (Richard) Castaneda from Los Angeles, California. He would have been one of the survivors. Is there a list of crew members or some way we can verify this. Any help would be appreicated.
Thank You,
Wally
I served on REDFIN (SS 272) It is nice to see after all these years someone is looking for our lost shipmates..This year Largarto, Wahoo, Grunion were found. In 2007 a search for Dorado (SS 248) will take place in March…thank you.
To the Carson Martin family. As I understand Carson lived in Maryland near my Grandparents. He moved to Va. as a teenager. As a young adult he wrote several letters to my Grandparents. My father still has those letters. If someone in Carson’s family would like to talk with my father about those letters, you can reach me at ww.anderson@ngc.com
Mr. Caro,
There were no survivors when it disappeared. However there were some that served on board temporarily. I’ve seen a book written that mentioned two such (not your relative). Please email me privately at rrrstarATgmail.com (replace the “AT” with @ of course) include “navy” and “Castaneda” in your subject so I don’t delete your message accidentally.
Rhonda
Mr. Hummel,
Are you retired from the WWII era? We are trying to get an early sub crew pic ID’d from the time of the S-boats. It includes a very young Carson Martin. No one else is ID’d in the photo and the only clue is the “snake” picture on the sub itself in the background- if that has any meaning at all. If you think you might can help, please email me privately at rrrstarATgmail.com (replace “AT” with @ of course). please put “Grunion” in your subject line.
Hey,
I love what you’e doing!
Don’t ever change and best of luck.
Raymon W.
I would like to thank the Japanese gentleman for adding the information he knew about the Kano Maru and the Grunion. I believe that was the missisng link for all these years. I also want to thank the Abele brothers for getting involved with the other crew members. This is closure for many family’s and I”m so sorry it came just a couple of years late for my mother, Who was Mrs Louis Doell, Radioman on the Grunion. It was a tragic story for her life , for she didn’t get to spend much of any time with him before he left on patrol. Me and my Brothers have all the pictures of “Red” Doell, their wedding and I do not believe my mother ever got over his death. She would be very proud of what you are doing, as am I.
Would there ever be a chance of bringing the Grunion up? Or are you just going to use equipment to go down and make sure this image is in fact The Grunion?
By the way, in the picture of the crew and wives at the party, #24 is Louis Doell and#25 my mother , his wife at the time, Evelyn Doell.
Thank You again and God Bless everyone involved. Nancy Springer
Hi
Good luck with the project.
I just add your site to my historic submarines blog in http://www.schnorkel.blogspot.com
Hi Jim. Photos i received. Thanks
I added some information on the Attack Analysis section that some of you may want to look at. It supports a different anaysis of who may have sunk the Grunion.
Well we all know of George F Drew through his letter to Mrs. Abele and subsequently through her to the rest of the Grunion families.
http://ussgrunion.com/blog/2006/08/11/letter-from-kay-abele-from-1943/
I just wanted to inform ya’ll that I have spoken with George’s youngest sibling Ruth and thought you would be interested in what she said:
Their father was a commercial fisherman and she is the youngest of 10/11 children (I forgot which she said). She remembered a scar on his chin (mentioned in the letter). She said the way she learned he had been rescued was she was a teen and was at the train terminal in Jacksonville, FL on her way to camp when she saw someone and thought “that looks like George Frederick” and sure enough it was. She remembered he had his pants tied up with a rope and was on his way to New Orleans (to report -she thought). He told her not to say anything and to go on to camp so she did but only stayed a couple of days.
I am recently informed of the Grunion discovery. I am surprised to find out that there are other relatives of Louis Doell Jr. He was the only child of my mothers sister. Gladys Doell [nee Paynter. ] I remember as a child hearing of Jr. Doell, but never really knew of the historyof this one of my many cousins. I do remember how much Aunt Gladys and Uncle Lou cherished there son Junior, and missed him .
I was discussing the discovery of the Grunion with an Aunt this morning and she informed me the Louis H. Doell Jr. Was the adopted son of Louis H. Doell Sr.. His Mother Gladys Doell {nee Paynter} Was Married to Louis Jr. Father. After divorce She Married Louis Sr. Louis Sr. than adopted and gave his name to Louis Jr. His original last name is believed to be DUFF.
I would like to get in touch with NANCY SPRINGER. There are many - many relatives of Junior Doell that She is probably not aware of
Mr. Lucas,
I’ve passed the word about your first post back to your Dieselberg relations. Are you saying there may be Duff relations also wondering what happened to Louis Doell Jr.? Have you been able to inform those relations? Vickie Rodgers spent a good bit of time trying to track Doell’s family but the name “Dieselberg” was easier to track than “Lucas” so I’m glad word got back to ya’lls family. Please contact me at rrrstar@gmail.com
Rhonda Raye
Dear (Bruce),
I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of fortune and weather conditions in your search for your father and Grunion. My father, Frank Latta, was the skipper of Narwhal that I believe (?) was part of the attack on Dutch Harbor during the time your father was in those waters. As you must know by now, my Dad\’s next command, the Lagarto, lost on her third patrol in the South China Sea, has now been found. A documentary film is being created as I write this, includung photos of her lying in not much more than 200 feet. I can\’t begin to describe the feelings that this discovery has given me. Good luck.
From: peterolinto@aol.com
Date: September 22, 2006 8:49:49 PM EDT
To: mbabele@99info.net
Subject: William Patrick Devaney, USS Grunion
Dear Mr. Abele,
My name is Peter Olinto and my Uncle, William Patrick Devaney, served with your Dad on the USS Grunion. I am sitting here with my Mother, Maureen Devaney Olinto, and we would like to thank you for all of your efforts in searching for the Grunion and for sharing all the information you have obtained with the families of the lost crew.
My mother is one Billy’s six younger sisters who all still love and miss him dearly. I hope you realize what a profound impact your efforts are having on the family members of the lost crew. We could never repay you for all of your efforts.
We will be sure to pass on any new information about the Grunion with the rest of the family.
Thanks again and God Bless you and your family!
Peter
.
My middle name is Ernest, named after Miller, E.(Ernest) C. F2. He was my mother’s brother (Florence Miller [Petersen]).
Rest in peace all.
To Rhonda Raye.
After further conversation with my aunt, she told me Jr. Doell’s last name was DUFFY and she corrected me on that. The name Lucas may not come in - in direct relative search. His mother, My mother, And Russell Dieselberg,s wife were sisters. They all shared the maiden name of PAYNTER. A search of the Paynter name will probably get better results. My brother and sister are going to visit our uncle Russell Dieselberg next week in Georgia. He just clebrated his 95th birthday.
To Rhonda Raye. An afterthought . The Paynter Family is from the north central part of Kentucky around the Bracken count area. You might want to check on Howard Paynter of Falmouth Ky.
We at Nippon Express USA, Boston Branch, are very proud to be able to assist in the search for the USS Grunion. We pushed the truck with the ROV out today with all possible haste. We wish the expedition well. May the USS Grunion’s resting place be found so we may honor those who gave their lives for their country and to bring some closure to the family of the crew.
July 30, 2007 - We Remember Them
In the rising of the sun and in its going down, we remember them.
In the blowing of the wind and in the chill of winter, we remember them.
In the opening of buds and in the rebirth of spring, we remember them.
In the blueness of the sky and in the warmth of summer, we remember them.
In the rustling of the leaves and in the beauty of autumn, we remember them.
In the beginning of the year and when it ends, we remember them.
When we are weary and in need of strength, we remember them.
When we are lost and sick at heart, we remember them.
When we have joys we yearn to share, we remember them.
So as long as we live they too shall live, for they are now a part of us as we remember them.
-Anonymous
Last week I visited Russ Dieselberg { Uncle, also uncle of L.H. Doell R2C } in Atlanta. Stopped in Cartersville Ga. and had lunch with Rhonda Raye. It is amazing how the Grunion discovery has changed so many lives. Thanks to Nancy Springer for the E-mail. I am looking forward to hearing from you. Check your E-mail. I am starting a stronger search for the Biography on Jr. Doell and his mothers first marraige and hope to have something soon.
I am the agent with Landstar Ranger who, along with Glen Larson arranged to have the truck available exactly when you needed it to transport the ROV to Seattle. I would like to say I’m honored to have been asked to help with one aspect of this endeavor. God bless the crew that served our country so honorably ,who gave their lives so that we all may live free. We will continue to monitor this site for updates on your search for the Grunion. God Speed
I saw an article in the Asheville Citizen Times newspaper in Asheville, NC today. A fellow Kiwanis Club member (Brooks Ledford) in the West Asheville Kiwanis Club had some brothers that served in WWII. I don’t think all of his brothers made it home and perhaps Brooks is a relative of one of the sailors that your are looking for, name of Moore Julis Ledford, chief yeoman, in the newspaper article. I recommend you look Brooks up as he is a lifetime resident of the Asheville area and may know something about Moore Ledford.
It really is exciting following John’s voyage. I can’t wait to see some pictures.
I wentto visit my mom in Connecticut last week. She’s 87 and doing well. I believe she is the only living widow of the entire crew of the Grunion,or maybe the oldest living spouse. Does anyone know this to be true?
BLESSING TO ALL of the family members. I read a lot of news dailey and most of it’s all bad. I’m very glad and proud for all that was involved in the search and I know the family members are very thankful and happy for all , who didn’t give up their FAITH. A JOB WELL DONE.
I read of your discovery in today’s Virginian-Pilot. I’m here in Va. Beach, helping my Dad, Killraine Newton, Jr., who served on the USS Sailfish, SS-192, formerly known as the Squalus, which sank in 1939 but was raised and renamed. He also served on the USS Sea Leopard, but never did combat patrols on that boat. I know it is a comfort for family members to finally find their missing loved ones, even after all this time, and those men on the USS Grunion can finally come home. Bravo Zulu.
I am the niece of Louis Henry (Red) Doell, Jr, who was a Radioman on the USS Grunion when it went down. My Aunt, Everlyn, spoke often of her lost love and it felt as if we knew our Uncle personally even though he died long before we were born. She past away in 2001, ago before any information about the Grunion started coming out. She was 82 years old when she died, yet she still had his picture out in her livingroom sitting on the shelf. I think she would be happy to know that he and the other men of the Grunion are getting some recognition for their heroism after all these years. Thank you on behalf of my late Aunt and the Family for your diligence in searching for our family members.
Phyllis Embras
Niece of Radioman Louis Henry (Red) Doell, Jr
Congrats on finding the Grunion! I’m amazed and encouraged by your persistance but if it was my father I would do no less.
Jay Dolan
Lowell, MA
Solving this mystery brings some peace to the famiilies of these brave submariners. My strongest compliments to the gallant crew who undertook this mission with very long odds. They honor the crew of USS Grunion by emulating their courage and professionalism. May the Grunion crew now rest in peace and honor.
Jim Allen
WOW! Congratulations! Reading about your search and discovery are fascinating.
I found the article on Yahoo!, and, although I grieve with the rest of the family members, I can add that now that we know where she rests, we can at last say ‘Thanks to the Captain, Officers, and crew of the Grunion for a job well done! We only wish that you could have returned to us … signed, the People of The United States of America’
As a former Boston Sci sales rep from the early/mid 90’s I would like to wish John Abele and you all the best of luck! I’ve followed this loosley from when I first saw it hit the national news wires a few months back and of course took an interest because of Mr Ablele. Glad you have made a breakthrough. Take Care.
Really happy to hear of the latest news concerning the possible Grunion find. Good luck and Godspeed to all who search for her. I’m looking forward to seeing something soon about your successful efforts. Thanks for all your hard work!
Good luck to all kin of the crew of THE GRUNION. May all your questions be answered to your satisfaction.
These are treacherous waters - the NORTH PACIFIC & BERING SEA.
Last 10/18/06 my oldest son and namesake was killed when the commercial fishing vessel OCEAN CHALLENGER capsized and sunk 60-90 miles south of the Aleutians. There was (1) survivor of a crew of (4). One young man’s body was not recovered. I am still awaiting answers from the U.S. Coast Guard as to cause of the incident. So while my loss was more recent and I was fortunate enough to have my son’s body for burial and some closure I know what you are going through to some degree to find answers. God Bless our seamen and all of you.
I read today about the discovery of the submarine the USS Grunion. I would like to add my thanks to all the above sentiments of how greatful I am to all those who lost their lives to protect mine and my family.
My father was a submariner and I sit here today with seven brothers and sisters because he was able to come home safe from the war, for I know it could very easily have been my father on that submarine.
To all who lost loved ones on the USS Grunion you are in my prayers and I hope you find comfort in this discovery.
Thank you and
God Bless
Helen Simmons
To the Abele brothers and to the gals, Rhonda and all, God Bless you for finding the last of the 70 living relatives of the sailors on the USS Grunion. What an amazing job you did. My uncle, Paul Patrick Sullivan , the med on the ship, was one ofthe heroes of the USS Grunion. It has been with amazement to read the findings of this years search. We were contacted last year when the search began. My father, Stanley Sullivan, Paul’s brother who just turned 80 this year, is the only surviving sibling of Paul. The feelings of all in our family (as there are of many of Stanley’s family alive) are that of of emotion. As I explained last year, just to be able to put some type of closure on a situation like this is a blessing. My father has been sad over the loss of his brother for so many years and to not know what happened or where he is has been very sad for him. The Abele brothers are a godsend. Their father is looking down on them with pride. They have been able to give 69 families a sense of closure and knowledge. That is a gift that can not be put into words. Thank you once again from my heart and I feel confident that I may speak for my father and the rest of my family when I say God Bless you Bruce and John Abele and thank you for staying in contact with me. May God continue blessing your search and God Bless America!!
My son was on the 2006 zonar search for the Grunion. It is with much excitement that we follow this progress. so happy for so many to get closure of the mystery of the Grunion. Congratulations.
Liz Larsen
What you have done in bringing closure to the loss of the USS Grunion is beyond awesome. As a Navy veteran, I have to say BRAVO ZULU.
Williams JL ETR2 USS Newport News CA148 ‘59-’62
I saw an article about your success in locating your families’ submarine. I am happy you have found them- some closure after all these years, and the comfort of “just knowing.” Not many people can truly understand how you feel, and how it must’ve been to wonder all these years, but I do. My dad and his friends disappeared near Sitka, Alaska in 2004 in a floatplane, and none of them nor their plane have been found. That’s not nearly as long as you’ve been waiting, but I can truly relate to your struggle. Congratulations doesn’t seem like and appropriate word, but you have accomplished something great. Good job.
To the Abele brothers, Rhonda, Vickie, and everyone involved in this search, I am so delighted and overjoyed at your discovery, with all your persistance and commitment, to finally finding the Grunion after 65 years! Without you, the loss of the Grunion and its resting place would never have been resolved.
This is heartwarming to all of the surviving relatives of the crew members. The loss of my uncle, Ryder Mathison, Electrician’s Mate, First Class forever left a hole and questions in our family. My mother, who was Ryder’s sister, and Ryder’s wife and older daughter have passed away, but I feel that they would be happy that after all these years, these brave submariners are being recognized for their heroism and courage.
Thanks to the Abele brothers, this brings closure to many of us. I look forward to a memorial service in the future.
Congratulations on your incredible discovery! For years now my dad, Bob, a submarine man himself and Newton boy, has kept your quest, and the U.S.S. Grunion’s tale alive to all who will listen. May your dad, all his mates as well as their families find peace.
I’ve been following this story for a while and have had fingers crossed since I first heard of it. I’ve been talking about it to all who will listen explaining the importance of this quest, not only for the family but for those that feel (like myself) a debt of gratitude is in order for the submariners on the boat. Too many have forgotten the sacrifices made those years ago. I for one, will not. The pictures are absolutely stunning and I hope that the Department of the Navy will recognize you oficially for what you have done. Best wishes for all of you.
I was so excited to read the news in the Arizona Republic Friday, August 24 of your great discovery! Congratulations to the Abele brothers and their crew for ther great perseverance! My mother (and her brothers and sisters and parents) always had such a sense of loss when her brother, Ryder Mathison went missing with the Grunion. While my mother and most of her family have since passed, Ryder’s sister, Helen, age 94 must feel a sense of closure. Thank you for all you have done! I look forward to more pictures and updates.
Your Dad belongs to the ages. I heard first hand stories from my Dad about the Grunion. He was a Rear Admiral in the Pacific Fleet in 1942.
What your doing to honor his memory is wonderful. You are setting the finest example of remembering some one who died to protect our country.
With Admiration and Respect,
Martin Halpern, Retired
Major General, US Army
Congradulations on your discovery. Job well done. The mystery has been solved by a determined group of people. May you all have peace. Patricia Shreve USn Ret. HM1
Very best wishes to all involved in the entire U.S.S. Grunion story. My father - RADM Edward J. Fahy, USNA ‘34 - was a classmate and best friend of J. M. “Mac” McMahon. My father treasured memories of “Mac” until his own death in 1989. My father had been in submarines in WWII - Plunger, Tuscaloosa, etc and retired from the Navy in 1969 after serving as Chief of the Bureau of Ships.
I remember sons Mike and Jim McMahon and their mother Fran visiting us from time to time - but we have lost touch over the years. My sisters and I share the emotions that they must be experiencing at this discovery. Well done to all.
Congratulations on your success! Carmen Anthony Parziale was my mothers cousin. Carmen has many 1st cousin’s, 2 and and 3rd cousins in his hometown of Weedville and St. Marys, PA.
My mother Emma Parziale has a scrap book that has newspaper clippings from 1942 when Carmen went missing. It’s good to be able to put the paper reports of what happen to him in the scrapbook.
May they all rest in peace!
Karen Caseman Beimel - 2nd cousin to Carmen Parziale
Please, I haven’t read all the comments here, so if I’m repeating a point already made, please forgive me.
That submarine was surfaced before it sank. The photo of the open hatch clearly shows the H stanchion hauled up out of the boat and installed into the deck holes next to the open hatch. This is only done when surfaced. I haven’t heard this mentioned yet, so if it was and I missed it, I apologize.
To Karen Caseman Beimel: Your mother must be the daughter of my great Uncle Carmen Anthony Parziale whom I recall from childhood and visits to Weedville. My dad and Carmen who died on the Grunion were brothers. There were, as I recall, a lot of siblings in your Mom’s family. Am I right? The name Emma is very familiar to me. I shall try to reach you. I am most interested in the articles she has, and of course interested in talking with both of you. I, too, have three or four articles I can share.
Kindest personal regards,
Mary Bentz
I read the attack analysis several times and found myself in the Grunion, trying to imagine what was going through my dad’s mind when all this was happening. I couldn’t help thinking, “what if”. What if the fog was heavier making it nearly impossible to see, or, what if the torpedos went off and destroyed the Kano Maru. I sure would like to see a movie made of the Grunion from its inception right up to the present discovery.
Many thanks to the Abele family for providing all of us with pictures and the attack analysis. I only wish I could have been there to witness everything first hand.
Congradulations We need to find all these “missing” ships and subs put things to rest
My uncle was killed on the Arizona
Bridget Fahy Flint,
It is good to hear from you. Please email me at mcm5ahon@verizon.net. Mike and I are both out of the country. Mike is in the Galapagos and I am in Peru. After 65 years both of us are gone while all this is happening. We will be home in two weeks and I can respond.
Jim
while searching the net I came across totalnavy.com/catalogue for a modell of Gato class sub. There is an offer for model crew members. The offer shows a photo of a Gato class sub with actual crew mwmbers sitting on side of ship. The crew looks like JIM ABELE & crew. Can anyone confirm this as I have not seen this photo on the website.
To Jim Lucas,
Where can we see this?
Thanks,
Mary Bentz
Jim Lucas, is this the picture?: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0821238.jpg This is the Gato and crew (sister sub to Grunion) before it’s fairwater was cut down.
To Mary Bentz.
This photo can be found by searching totalnavy.com /catalogue. click on to Model Ships. than US submarines . than Gato class. roll down to offer for kit #2525 51 figures.to paint for the model. An example of US navy crew is a B/W photo of Gato crew. I spoke with Bruce Abele this morning. He is very excited as he has not seen this photo before..
To John Hart. Follow the instructions I provided to Mary Bentz. It is for a plastic model of the sub. Gato is the class of submarine not the name of a ship.
JIM LUCAS
Jim, if you go to the Navsource website…(seems nobody can use the links I am sending) at http://WWW.Navsource.org and go select the “submarines” section on the left side. On the Submarines page scroll down and enter the “Fleet Submarines” section. Scroll down to Gato class and select the link for the Gato, SS-212. The 9th picture down is your picture, attributed to Mr. J.R. Carrel who identifies a member of the crew in the picture. This gives me every reason to believe the picture is properly identified as the Gato. I know it is the Gato class and the first sub in the class was the Gato, SS-212. So it also was the name of a specific sub.
To Rhonda Raye,
Thank you for guiding me to the list of crew members of the Grunion. Donald Francis Welch was my first cousin. I wasn’t sure of the name of the sub or where it went down, but I remember that it sank somewhere near Alaska and my brother remembered the name Grunion. Without your help we never would have found out where and when he died.
James Welch
My great uncle was on the Grunion his name is Albert Ullmann. I was so happy to hear the news. My granfather Joseph H. Ullmann was Alberts big brother god rest his soul I only wish he was here to see this . Unfortunetly he passed away Jan,20th of this year. He spent the past 60 plus years wondering what happened to his baby brother. Uncle Albert wanted to follow his big brother where ever he went. My grandfather often blamed himself for loosing him. (Albert) I have a picture of the 2 of them in Hawii that was the last time they would ever see each other. I would like to send it in so you can put a picture to my uncles name but I don’t know where to send it to if you could e-mail me with that info that would be great. Thank you ALL for all your hard work and determination on giving us the piece of my family that was lost for so long. (They did it grandad they found your baby brother we love and miss you R.I.P)
Lt. William G. Kornahrens, Billy to my Dad (his younger cousin in Lewiston ME) and Primo to his Naval Academy classmates, inspired my Dad to also attend the Naval Academy. He was ten years younger, and Dad, as an eight year old, was impressed with how sharp he looked in his uniform.
If Billy’s daughter would like to talk to someone who knew her Dad, I’m sure Mr. Abele will give her my email.
God bless you for pursuing this, and helping so many people get closure.
Reading these postings tears are falling from my face. The nightly news carries so many stories of murder and violence, and then a story appears that rips at the heart - a story that reminds us of all the brave Americans that have and do serve this country, and I feel proud once again to be an American - Thank you
I just read some of the information you have on your website and will continue to finish it as time permits. I want to wish you and your brother all the best in your journeys to complete your mission in finding your father and all the others lost that day.
I wish you all the best and may God watch over you in your journey to bring your Dad and the others home.
You and your brother are to be commended in this endeavor.
This is the best show of love I have seen in a very long time
God bless you and your family
Dear Abele brothers,
I congradulate you on the great work to find your fathers. To any others reading this who have a friend or acquantacne like the Abele brothers or who just interested to visit http://www.awon.org. We are the American World War II Orphans Network and we represent the 183,000 children left fatherless by the 410,000 MIA/KIA of WWII. We all share the common story of growing up fatherless and wanting to know more about our fathers who did not come home.
In their memory,
Robert H. Meek, JR
Colonel, AUS(RET)
Proud son of 2LT Robert H. Meek KIA October 19, 1944 over Milan Italy at eternal rest in the Sicily Rome American Cemetery, Nettuno Italy
I saw the story on the Today Show this morning and it touched my heart to know that there can now be some closure for the Grunion families. My husband is currently a submariner and we are stationed here in Groton, CT. It’s a wonderful thing that you all have done.
Your fathers would be so proud of you! I share your pain and joy. I lost my Dad in WWII and started a network for others like myself who lost their fathers and relatives in this war. There were over American 183,000 children left fatherless from WWII. I hope anyone who is interested will go to our website or contact us at awon@aol.com. Or you can go to our website at http://www.awon.org. We have much in common! Also I would like to mention for those who are seeking information on their loved ones who died in the war, I have written a comprehensive guide to finding records, getting medals, etc. Touchstones: A Guide to Records, Rights, and Resources for Families of American World War II Casualties. I wrote this after doing extensive research on all records available and rights available to family members of those who died. For information on getting this book or the American WWII Orphans Network (AWON) feel free to email me at mixmoseslake@aol.com. God Bless Us, Every one. Ann Mix, Founder
I don’t know where to begin or how to say thank you to all involved in bringing this to pass. The loss of a father I never knew is hard to explain to anyone unless they have been through it. Finally I feel sense of peace and a strong kinship to others who have experienced this same loss.
Thanks for providing a space to express those feelings and share our common experience. Thanks also for helping me to have a sense of pride in what our fathers did for our country. That has really been helpful.
I am a history/political science major buff who just happens to have an Ohio cousin who married Gary Lehman, an only child. Gary’s father was on the USS Grunion went the sub sank. We were thrilled to get the news in 2005 that there was a chance the submarine had been found. We keep up with the story and progress. Gary’s mother is still with us, but the mental pain of the loss of her husband has kept her from being able to endure new information. So I email and talk about the events with my cousin Gary who is now 67 years old and his wonderful wife, cousin Mary.
I am grateful to the families who searched and found the sub who have helped so many families have answers. They can now know that I and many more people are with them in our prayers and are grateful that their son’s and brothers were with Gary’s father and he wasn’t alone. God has blessed us with the continuing freedom these magnificent military heroes gave with their lives.
. Thank you for your continued work and God bless you.
Cathie S. Kirk, Southworth, WA State
My comment can be dated 9/24/2007
Has anyone noted the book “Submarine!” by Captain Edward Beach, USN? He states very specifically on pages 9 and 10 about a transmission he received while on SS 237 (Trigger) concerning the Grunion, being possibly torpedoed by the Japanese Submarine I-25….
I emailed about it, but wondered if anyone had seen that before?
Doc
My wifes uncle Sidney A. Loe, was a crewmember on the Grunnion. We recently saw a photo of the crew at a christening party at New London sub base, and wondered if Sidney was in the photo. There are numbers on most of the people, but we do not know if Sidney was ampng those present. Could someone advise if they know anything about Sidney Loe.
Thanks, Larry Horn
I am the niece of Albert Ullmann. My Mother was his sister and he had 7 other brothers and sisters. He was saving his money to get married; he was only 18 or 19 and very much in love. My Mother urged Albert not to go into the submarine division as it could be dangerous but he wanted to get married and felt he could earn more in that divison. That was in 1942 and it was the last we saw or heard from my Uncle Albert. He was a great person and a handsome man and the family missed him very much and we all loved him very much and we hope he is in Heaven and knows everyone in the Ullmann family loves him dearly. DAG
I’m a member of the USSVI Blueback Base in Portland, OR. I served on the USS Caiman from 1955 to 1957. I saw a reference to your website in the December 2007 NAVAL HISTORY magazine. Your photos are very interesting. A lot of questions. One question that I sent to base members - some are WWII subvets - is the grab bar or rail that is shown by the After Battery Hatch. I would think that this item would be stowed when underway, especially if the boat was submerged.
As said, the troops on the Grunion are on eternal patrol and we subvets on both US Submarine Veterans and US Submarine Veterans on WWII recognize these men with a moment of silence at each on=f our meetings.
Walters
To Mary Bentz,
Sorry for the delay…I’m in the process of buying a house. Yes, my Mom had 13 kids in her family. My Grand Father (Carmen Parziale) was an Uncle to the Carmen that passed away on the sub. I have to dig up the articles from the paper. It’s funny how things happen…my sister was home from DC a few weeks ago and had a Washington paper with her and it contained an article about the sub and Carmen’s picture. It’s a small world. You can contact me at kcbeimel@yahoo.com
Anyone interested in having a Headstone marker for a crew member that went down with the Grunion may do so by going on the internet and Googleing the VA. Once you get to the site look for Survivor benfits. Once in there look for Burials and Markers. You will need to fill out VA form 40-1330. If you have a VA office near you you could probably pick up a form there. I had a marker put near my dad’s parents headstone in MN about 14 years ago.
God Speed and good hunting–you will all be in our prayers that you will finally find closure. dj
To Karen Beimel, Mary Bentz, and Constance Bowen:
You should contact Carmen’s sister, Faye Buck. I’m sure she would love to hear from you all. She lives in St. Paul, Minnesota at St. Paul’s Monastery.
http://www.stpaulsmonastery.org/
–Jessica
Who is Jessica?
Mary Bentz
Jessica -
Thank you for thinking of Sister Faye Buck who is my aunt. I inform her quite often of all of the happenings with the USS Grunion. She had been interview by the local press in St. Paul and she explained the peace and closure that she now feels about her brother.
She recently has been touched by the generosity of the Abele brothers and their token to her. She is remembering the “family” of the Grunion with special prayers of thanksgiving.
Janet L. Mehall,
Niece of Carmine Anthony Parziale
Cousin of Mary Bentz - “sub search”
Greetings…
I am a WWII buff and find this story fascinating. I wish you all the best in your search for answers.
Good Luck!
Mark W. Moronell, MD
Terry Terrass 24 Nov 2007
Comments re Charles A. Thompson posting of Nov 12, 2007
1. I concur with the Thompson conclusion that the GRUNION was not lost as a result of a circular run of one of its own torpedoes. My belief is based upon a combinatiom of the following posts previously made:
a. The sound of an exploding torpedo warhead would far surpass the sound of “a dull water explosion” made by the exploding of the 8cm shell which hit the “washing wave” and consequently be mentioned in the narrative of the encounter.
b. The observed half circle of bubbles is exactly what would have been expected after the final salvo as GRUNION prepared to load another torpedo by blowing down a torpedo tube which had a leak at the muzzle door due to a partially extruded muzzle door gasket.
c. Aiura reported seeing the third torpedo of the final salvo pass astern of KANO MARU. Whether the torpedo passed astern or in front of KANO MARU it would have been far enough away from GRUNION to make a return to GRUNION unlikely.
2. The Thompson scenario is very logical if, but only if, all was normal in GRUNION. There are reasons to believe that this was not actually the case. These reasons include, among others, the following:
a. The likelihood of flooding thru a leaking torpedo tube muzzle door as previously noted. Even if such an event were not catastrophic in itself it would have demanded the fulltime attention of the Captain and crew until the emergency was under control.
b. Much of the topside superstructure damage shown in a number of the pictures is very consistent with impact damage which could have been caused by some of the prior 83 8cm shells which hit the water and then GRUNION but did not explode because of being slowed below the velocity needed to cause their detonation. Short of penetrating the pressure hull itself, the worst damage was quite probably caused by penetrating the main and engine air induction piping. Not only would this piping have presented a large target due to their length and diameter, the weight added by their flooding would have added considerably to whatever other flooding was being experienced.
c. Even though the crew may not have known the type and extent of whatever topside damage was being experienced, they were undoubtedly aware that some damage was being incurred. From both its locations.appearance, and extent, it seems unlikely that all of this damage was caused by the sinking and subsequent descent to the bottom.
d. Assuming that these possibilities were, in fact, occuring, it is not unreasonable to assume as I noted in my posting of October 20, 2007, at 1010 PDT, which was responding to David Decevel’s posting of October 4, that Captain Abele may well have believed that he had no viable alternative but to surface and, perhaps, to even abandon ship before it sank. Notwithstanding that he had less than perfect information upon which to base his decision, given what happened to GRUNION and the speed with which it occured , tends to confirm that a decision to surface was proper and the best that could be made under the combination of circumstances which probably existed. .
3. Thompson hypothesizes a shell hit in GRUNION’s Control Room. I think that it is more likely that the 84th shot which hit the “washing wave”, penetrated a main ballast tank which was in the process of being blown for a surfacing, not a pressure hull compartment. I base this opinion on the belief that air venting from an unpressurized compartment would not have produced much of a water column whereas a hole near the top of a ballast tank which was in the process of being blown would be much more visible from a distance.
4. Thompson mentions the same pinched off bow appearance others.have noted. Although I have no idea as to the mechanism by which this may have occured, I very much suspect that it resulted, at least in part, from the fact that the Forward Torpedo Room, unlike the compartments further aft, had a flat bottom which was the top of No. 1 Main Ballast Tank. It seems reasonable to me that this hull cross-section would have been less able to resist increasing sea pressure than those compartments with circular cross-sections.
5. I echo the Thompson criticism of the Navy’s BuOrd shortcomings relative to the poor performance of the torpedoes with which the Navy entered the war, not just for GRUNION but the other submarines which were affected, one way or another.
Terry Terrass
.
Terry Terrass 25 Nov 2007
Comments re Guido’s posting of October 28, 2007
Sorry that a personal emergency and travels have precluded an earlier reponse to your posting. Here are my thoughts.
Re Point #2 -
In theory submarines are designed to be able to surface after the flooding of any one compartment, at least in so far as buoyancy is concerned. The validity of this. however, depends upon certain variables which are hard to predict. Most notably the angle on the ship will affect how much water can be blown out of the main ballast tanks.
I do not know the criteria and the extent to which the designers may have considered strength and rigidity in the design of the hull. I do know that the designers have to make compromises in their designs to satisfy a variety of criteria, most importantly hull buoyancy and stability. This necessitates setting criteria which can be expected rather than for worst case scenarios.
As a result I am inclined to take the words from the book “The Fleet Type Submarine” (INavPers 16160) regarding hull strength and rigidity at face value in the expectation that they were at least reviewed by design personnel
Re “Turning Moment”
Viewed only in terms of static equilibrium conditions, or nearly so, as in a normal submarine dive and modest speeds, I am inclined to agree with you. Making a transition between different static conditions, however, results in dynamic situations and forces. As for blowing only the forward main ballast tanks, I doubt that the Conn and/or Diving Officer would have had enough information about the extent of the flooding to have been so selective in determining a response to the situation. I do not think this was the only problem confronting GRUNION. See my other posting of yesterday regarding the Charles Thompson scenario as to the loss of GRUNION.
Relative to the rate of flooding through the muzzle door, the TANG, with extruded gaskets on both the muzzle and breech doors, but with both doors in the “shut” position, had enough flooding that the drain pump had trouble keeping up although this was undoubtedly due, at least in part, to TANG’s being at about 500 feet and having an old design piston type drain pump.
For coping with the postulated flooding situation the rate of pressurizing the compartment with the internal salvage air would have been too slow to have been very effective, even at a shallow depth.
I hope that this responds to each of your items..
Terry Terrass
God bless all sailors that go to sea and god bless those especially who never return from her.
I just finished reading the story in the Reader’s Digest. This is the first time I’ve ever posted a comment on anything I’ve read. I cried when reading this, both for the families losses and the relief that they finally found out the truth about what happened to their loved ones. Thank-you for sharing the story of true American Heroes and God Bless you, your families, and all our soldiers.
Dawn
Just read “Mystery At Sea” in the Reader’s Digest which was excellent. I have read every thing on the Webpage, viewed both the Today Shows and many videos, etc but I thought this was the best article so far. Many thanks to the Abele Brothers.
Peter Thomas Stephens
I just wanted to say thank you to the Readers Digest for writing this story and bringing this to our attention.
God is so good to us. He jelps us inderstand better the things we just can’t seem to understand. Thank to all these people for their sacrifice. This helps us see what brave fellows we’ve had protecting our country..
My name is Heather Wigle. My husband and I live in Cincinnati in a home we purchased in the summer of 2003, only days before our wedding. Reading a chance article in the Reader’s Digest has helped end a mystery I have been heartsick over since then.
I need the family of Louis Doell to please contact me as soon as possible as I have something I have longed to give to Red’s family since shortly after we moved in. Maybe it could be a Christmas gift to your family.
Blessings,
Heather Wigle
omadarlin@msn.com
Rhonda, Pictures were included with hard copy of Readers Digest.
My father was a second-cousin to Lt. William G. Kornahrens. Oftentimes I heard him and my paternal grandmother speak of “Billy.” After Billy’s mother died, he went to live in Lewiston, Maine with my grandmother’s first cousin, Helen Linehan. Billy’s sister, Helen Kornahrens-Binks went to live with my father’s family (which consisted of my father, his parents, and two younger siblings). My father spoke of Billy and aunt Helen visiting them at their home in Portland on most Sundays. Both my father (who was born in Feb. 1925) and his sister - who is two years younger - share many memories of him.
I remember my grandmother mentioning that Billy’s wife never remarried and that Billy died before the birth of his daughter. I also remember seeing a copy of “Submarine” in the house (where I believe the late author [retired Navy Captain Edward Beach] mentions Billy’s name on two or three occasions, and refers to him as “Willie”).
On another note, when my mother passed away at home in 1998, the doctor who came to my father’s home shortly thereafter saw a picture of Billy Kornahrens and asked who the man in the picture was and remarked that she thought he looked like Leonardo DeCaprio. My father would later remark that Billy was better looking than DeCaprio….My father also has what appears to be a studio-like picture somewhere of Billy Kornahrens as a young boy (perhaps at about the age of ten). But I think most of the pictures he has consist of Billy’s late sister (whom I last met in 1979) and his family. My father’s younger brother recently had dinner with Billly’s nephew from England, Patrick Binks (a retired captain in the Royal Navy).
About one and a half years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting two of Billy’s first cousins, Terry and Jack Linehan (Jack has since passed away).
In any event, my email is billdecoste1@verizon.net if Billy’s daughter would ever like to read some of my father’s memories of him.
Noting the open after battery hatch topside. It appears that the hook part of the dogs are missing. You can see it best with the dog at the top of the hatch.
I have just read with great interest about the USS Grunion.I am so glad the Grunion was found and the families have answers now.God Bless all those involved.
Nancy Hamilton
Alabama
I came across the site for the USS Grunion while doing research for a college history class and became engrossed. The website is wonderful and contains so many pictures and detailed accounts of events, it is a great tribute to the brave men who gave all.
Hello, I am so happy you were able to find you fathers sub. I have been an avid reader of WW-II Submarine history since I was a kid, which is a long time ago. My Father was in WW-II and stationed at Farragut Naval training Station, in Idaho. Many submarine crews were trained there, and the pressure tower/tank is still there, also a small Naval Museum. It his Book the USS Wahoo, RADM Kane wrote he thought it was possible that a circular torpedo had gotten the Yahoo. But it seems the Japanese Reports are more likely the reason, she was found recently as well, about where it was reported she went down. I wish we could locate all 52 of them, to put the families at peace.
Abigail Junell - I read your comment in the Grunion Blog. It is a wonderful website, indeed! Please don’t hesitate to share it with your friends, classmates, and family. We are in the third generation of this rapidly growing Grunion family now. Also, in my opinion, this Grunion story should be a part of American History Classes. It is a fascinating story and there are new dimensions to it each day.
Mary Bentz - Grunion Research Team “Sub Lady”
This is in response to Doc’s/Dean’s comments saying a message had been received by USS TRIGGER (?) that USS GRUNION had been sunk by IJN submarine I-25. There are several stories going on about this incident and I wish I knew its accuracy.
I have heard the submarine sunk in the vicinity of Kiska by I-25 was one of four submarines that had been given to Russia on lend lease and were enroute Mare Island for upgrade and overhaul. Any additional input on this would be appreciated.
One thing I do know for certain is the disposition and location of I-25 at the end of WWII. It was sunk in Oct/Nov 1943 in the Central Pacific. What caused its loss is unknown thus the non-specific date. Source of sinking: The official reports to Secretary of War Frank Knox and Secretary of War James Forrestal by Fleet Admiral Ernest J. King, USN, Commander in Chief United States Fleet and CNO.
Bill Wilson
I am looking for Mary Bentz. I have the last letter Louis Doell sent to my mother out of california before he went down a month later. I also have their wedding pictures. They only saw each other for a week or so after they were married before he left again and was never heard from except this letter. I was told you were interested in this information. I would like to share it if I can.
Nancy,
What exciting news from you! Thank you so much. Please email me at ca.par@hotmail.com and I will reply with my phone number and address. I would love to talk to you!
Thanks so much again.
Mary Bentz
In the opening of this guest book it mentions sharing information about the Aleutians and Bering Sea. Hope fully, what follows will add a very small portion of history on both US and IJN submarine and surface vessel activities in thst little known or understood combat area of the world. All information is from a primary source and is not hearsay or has been handed down:
Besides the loss of USS GRUNION (SS-216) off Kiska in July ‘42, another US submarine was also lost in the Aleutians in ‘42. It was the S-27 sunk off Amchitka Island on 19 June ‘42. No cause of loss or specific location was given; however, it possibly was from a stranding or weather related. If anyone has more details on this submarine, please share them. S-27 was commisioned before WWII.
Several IJN submarines were sunk in the Aleutians during WWII. They were the I-7 sunk off Kiska by a US destroyer on 22 June ‘43, the I-9 sunk N.E. of Attu by US patrol craft on 10 June ‘43, the I-31 sunk off Kiska by a US destroyer on 13 June ‘43, the I-180 sunk by a US destroyer off Kodiak Island on 26 April ‘44, the RO-61 sunk by a US destroyer and plane in the Aleutians (specific location unk) on 31 August ‘42, and finally, RO-65 sunk by a B-24s at Kiska on 28 September ‘42.
IJN destroyers sunk were IJN ARARE sunk off Kiska by US submarine on 5 July ‘42 and IJN NENOHI sunk off Agattu, Aleutians by US submarine 4 July ‘42 (possibly by same sub that sank IJN ARARE).
It was mentioned earlier by contributor Kevin a report was received by USS TRIGGER (SS-237) about USS GRUNION’s loss in the book, “Submarine”. USS TRIGGER sadly to say is also still on patrol having been lost off the Ryukyu Islands in March ‘45. She had been commissioned on 31 January ‘42.
Bill Wilson
Bill Wilson -
The S-27 ran aground on Amchitka Island on 19 June 1942 in very adverse weather. She could not be freed and was abandonned in rubber boats. After six days on the deserted island all of the crew were rescued. See page 269-269 of Clay Blair’s book “Silent Victory”.
Terry Terrass
Terry,
Thanks for the confirming the loss of S-27 for me. My dad was the Port Commander of the entire Aleutian theater during all of WWII and he told to me the story of the loss of S-27 when I was about 10…62 long years ago so I was reluctant to say for sure.
Your reply tweaked my curiosity and I wanted to know more about S-27 and her class so did some real “deep” digging. One of the things I learned was all “S” boats couldn’t go real “deep”…200′ design depth.
You may know some of the things I’ll mention here but some of our readers may not, including me until an hour or so ago.
There were 4 classes of “S” boats, S-1, S-11, S-42, and S-48. The “S” boats were the oldest to see combat during WW II. S-7, later (SS-132) was authorized in 1917, keel laid 1919 at Bethlehem Steel at Quincy, MA, launched 1922. She was a Holland Class sub. Her first skipper during the loss was Lt. Herbert L. Jukes.
As far as I can determine, three “S”boats were lost during WWII, S-27 (SS-132), S-36 (SS-141), and S-39 (SS-144)…(later numbers).They were referred to as “Pigboats”. Possibly they were the original source of that term. During WWII, I went aboard an early WWII sub and the heavy cruiser BALTIMORE CA-68 (Comm. 4/15/43) at San Pedro, CA during “Navy Day 1943″. When I went below decks on the now unremembered sub, I was almost overwhelmed by the smell. When I asked a sailor what the smell was; he just smiled and said submarines are called “Pigboats”. That was enough for me. Finally, the USS BALTIMORE smelled of heavy gunpowder residue. These two smells I will never forget not those who served aboard them.
Thanks for your reply.
Bill Wilson.
.
Heather Wigle called me in Dec. About the letter she found. She got my number from uncle Russell Dieselberg. I gave her the information on how to get in touch with Nancy Hagan.
Heather please call me again if you still have my number.
I have since talked to both Mary Bentz, and Nancy Hagan about the letter, But I would like to connect with you again. I understand that you are onother Doell relative.
Jim Lucas
While aboard the U.S.S.Providence CLG-6, 1970-1972, off the coast of Vietnam, we were 6TH Fleet Flag ship. On May 8th of 1972, in a helicopter crash on the fantail, Rear Admiral Robinson and his staff were killed. R.A.Robinson was buried at sea a few days latter, but Commander Leaver, Captian Taylor and the helicopter were never found. As the helicopter went over the side, the blades cut into the berthing compartment next to mine and repairs to the ships skin were done in Okinawa, Japan. Also, the red light on the under side of the helicopter, came off broken and I still have it. This has very little to do with the Grunion, right, well sort of. We must remember those who have fallen or they truly are lost. I’am sure that the Abele family and others, undestand the feelings of these families and their loss also. Thanks for listening, God bless your hard work and bring healing to those that hurt. Art Allen
I would like to thank all involved in the finding and current work on the USS GRUNION
my great aunt evlyn daniels, was the wife of L H DOELL. this work has added so much to what we knew about the fate of the grunion. and i am sure more will be uncovered.
MOST OF ALL I WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE CREW OF THE USS GRUNION FOR THIER SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY AND THEIR SACRIFICE FOR THE FREDOM WE HAVE TODAY.
harold n dehner jr
All of the work, events, hospitality,and publications, thanks to Bruce, John, and their associates have been wonderful, educational, and enlightening, especially to those of us who lost a relative as a Grunion crewmember. With the approval of Bruce, Suzanne Farrell and I (nieces of crew members) did a “sample” survey of just a few relatives to see how they felt about a final memorial service for the Grunion. We were fortunate to have met a number of them in Boston.Some have written us to see what is happening, and since our goal was just to see how many would like a memorial, any other questions need to be addressed to Bruce and John. That was our referral to them.
Of the 30 crew members whose relatives were polled and who returned the questionnaire, which is approximately 43% of the Grunion crew, the response was that a maximum of 168 relatives would be interested in attending a memorial. The majority were interested in Groton as the preferred site, with the Bowfin site in Honolulu being the second choice.
Hopefully, this will give some basic information to those who were kind enough and grateful to receive and return the questionnaire. The thanks and wonderful response letters were definitely worth our effort in trying to give Bruce and John a baseline from which to work in their future plans for a memorial service. If you have any other questions, please send them to Bruce and John.
This has been such a delightful and emotional experience for me and my family. The Grunion was lost before I was born but I always felt like I knew my uncle Kenneth Hall as his memory was kept alive through my grandmother, Mary Hall. There is
so much gratitude and admiration that we all owe to the Abele brothers.
They never let go of their dreams and are sharing what they know with all of the surviving
family members
Sincerely, Susan Hall Strobel
I AM A NIECE OF EDWARD EARL KNOWLES. I DIDNT KNOW HIM BUT HEARD ALOT ABOUT HIM FROM MY FATHER GRANDMOTHER AND AUNT. MY UNCLE S BIRTHDAY IS THE SAME AS MINE.
I WANT TO THANK ABELE SEARCH TEAM AND GOD BLESS THEM.
MY FATHER HAS PASSED NOW BUT HE WOULD BE VERY HAPPY TO KNOW THEY FOUND USSGRUNION.
I LIVE IN GREENVILLE MS AND I TOOK PICTURES OF BELL AND SENT TO STAN KENDRICK WHICH HE TOOK CREDIT FOR . THANKS STAN GREAT FAMILY COOPERATION
To Mary Parziale Bentz,
Mary Lou how did you ever get involved with this. I would love to know. I am glad you did now we at least have some answers to what happened to Uncle Carmen. Its just too bad our fathers are not still alive .
You can contact me at marveezie4@msn.com if you want
Reply to Mary L. Parziale Vitarell
To answer your question as to how I became involved with the Grunion search. As long as I can remember, it has always been apparent to me how deeply affected my dad was with the loss of his baby brother and noticeably to the rest of our family, as well – not only Uncle Carmine’s siblings but their spouses as well. That sense of loss carried over through the generations and is here today. I knew that I would be able to help in locating the rest of the other sailors’ families so that they could share our sense of relief. The Sub Ladies were able to complete the mission of contacting a family member for each of our brave and valiant men who paid the ultimate price for us on that day in July of 1942. These families spread the word throughout their families and with all of the publicity this story has had in the past year, more and more extended families are contacting us daily. So our Grunion Family is growing by leaps and bounds – they are nieces/nephews, cousins and friends – not matter how distant in the genealogy line – they are all family and that is what we are all about. Many of our families are telling us that they are meeting new relatives they had never even heard about and the elation is indescribable. Some are even finding siblings they didn’t know about. Bottom line is – everybody wins. It is a privilege and honor to work with this incredible Grunion family headed by the Abeles and we can never thank them enough for their kindness, generosity and commtment.
Thanks for your address. ML, family news I will address in a personal email to you – I promise. Mary
I have just finished reading the wonderful story published by the Beacon News, Aurora, Illinois, written by Lis Kilpatrick, with photography by Heather Eisdick. She tells about the Grunion, about the Abele’s search, and about the Bedards. There are 69 more such wonderful stories out there to be told.
Shortly after I finished reading the article, I received a call from a Max Peterson, another submariner’s son who had also just read the article, and called to share that he has had a life-long interest in US submarines. We had never met before, he just called to say hi, because of the article.
It is a wonderful, wonderful discovery that Bruce and John Abele have made, and it saddens me to learn that there are so many WWII submarines still lost. We will, for sure, attend the memorial service in October!!
I read the article “Lost Crew Discovers a Family” in the USA TODAY of March 13, 2008. It’s a fascinating story. Congratulations to the “Sub Ladies” and the Abele brothers for their hard work and enduring efforts. It is nice that the crew of the SS GRUNION are now being remembered and honored.
To Brothers Abele,Winston Leonard Spencer-Churchill,Prime Minister of Great Britain 1940-45,in his memoirs of the Second World War,stated the following:”The road to Victory was long and hard.Those who perished,on the way,did not give their lives,in vain”.All honour to those who did.Having just read the USA Today report,I feel you have lit a fire,of interest amongst all who were otherwise in ignorance,of the sacrifice of the Grunion.I hope others will also,through modern technology(internet),now record all who fell,in the cause of freedom,with a picture and biographical notes.A name on a memorial,is not enough.I congratulate you on the success of your endeavours.
To the crew of the Grunion.
As my Brothers-in-Arms in the Sea services of my country, I thank you all for your service.
I extend my deepest condolences to your families, and I thank them for your honest, and
faithful service to our country.
You will never be forgotten.
Semper Fidelis,
Sgt. J.M. Wilson USMC 1987-2002
Mary
please note that the photo of Marshall Woggelum lists him as a Fireman 3rd class. The chevron on his arm is for a 1st class.
Jerry, Ex Navy CTR2
Mr. Argo,
That is very interesting. Thanks for telling us. All that we have had to go on is the WWII memorial website
http://www.wwiimemorial.com/default.asp?page=registry.asp&subpage=search
that has listings from NARA. The website like any site has errors as there are two of the men alternately listed as clerk and cook. I guess we’ll need to get Van Woggelum’s service record.
I salute the crew and family members of the USS Grunion. Our nation and I for one am most greatful for their contribution to freedom. Signed, MSgt John Kosmak, USAF Retired
Dear Family Members:
My heart goes out to you as you have lost family members that maybe you never meet in such a terrible situation. They are heroes. My Uncle, Walter Justice served in the Navy too during WW II. My Dad, John H. Shipp, Jr, was army Sgt. They are still with us. Keep up the good work, I think that is great!!
Your truly,
Elaina Y. Shipp
614/409-0524
wanted to be Air Force
The USA Today article was excellent, and I sent paper copies to relatives and older relatives who don’t have email and also sent the file, which I saved, to other relatives who missed the article. The pictures of the crew members that would tell a little about each one were wonderful; and another niece, Carole Boo-Harrington (Robert Boo) and I feel that our uncles, both from Iowa and both electrician’s mates were friends who were together at the end of their lives. My cousin Bobbi, Ryder’s daughter; Ryder’s grandson, Stephen Kamei; and I noticed that Ryder’s hometown of Sioux City was misspelled, and his age was incorrect. He was 36 in 1942, having been born March 15, 1906.
Dear Abele Brothers:
I am from Puerto Rico. Sorry about my english. I just want to say that I read your history in “Selecciones” magazine April 2008. The history was so interesting to me and I ran to the internet to read a see more about this history. I’m sorry about your dad, but he was a heroe same that all of you. Love from Puerto Rico.
Hi,
Any new information on which dates the memorial service is to be held?
Thanks
Hello…,
I had read an article in a readers digest a few minutes ago about the Grunion., and I was touch by the story that’s why I immediately check the web to know more info regarding it.
My father is a World War veteran, maybe that’s the reason why I can relate with your story.
I can support you through prayers..
All the Best!
GOD Bless!
Bona (Philippines)
Hello,
I recently read an article about the Grunion from the Pennsylvania newspaper “The Morning Call”. The story was so touching and interesting that I wanted to know more. I did a search for the Grunion on the Internet and found your site.
I thought that maybe others would like to read the article to know about the families from Pennsylvania whose loved ones were on the Grunion. The article can be read at:
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_1grunion.6369333may01,0,3274525.story
Thank you for putting together this website and for all the information.
May all those whose lives were lost on the Grunion rest in peace.
Maureen Gordon - Thank you very much for your comments. If anyone reading this has any information regarding our families from Pennsylvania or any other of our crew from Grunion, please contact me at ca.par@hotmail.com. Thank you very much.
Mary Bentz
Thanks to Mary Bentz, an an absolutely beautiful article graced the front page of our local newspaper this morning regarding the USS Grunion. For those of you interested, the link is:
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200805251830/NEWS/805250375
Our small family, related to USS Grunion crew member, Marshall Van Woggelum, is truly grateful to the Abele’s and everyone involved in this amazing journey. May God bless you all.
As a WW2 History buff, I have traced the history of many ships and have dived on many in the Pacific. I am also a former submariner of a Polaris Nuc sub in the 70’s.
I don’t know of any more courageous act than going into battle in WW1 and WW2 in a sub. Those guys were a very special breed of young men, going to war in a very small, steel tube that ultimately became a cold tomb for many. Subs have always been a voluntary duty. In WW2, despite the highest mortality rate (22% of those who served on US subs were killed) of any branch in the Navy or any service, the finest continued to volunteer and go into harms’ way.
What a fantastic story - these children and relatives of these brave men finding them and telling their story 60+ years later! They were not lost or forgotten after all - they may truly rest in peace now.
I look forward to seeing the story played out on the Discovery Channel one day. NEVER FORGET these men.
Mary Bentz & Bruce Abele
Just read the article that appeared in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette concerning second Class MMM Jack Edwin Pancoast and the mention of the other crew members from PA. Today I attended our annual company retirement picnic and had many discussions with retirees that had read the article concerning my father that appeared in my local paper the Morning Call. Most of them were shocked because they did not know of my biological father. I was aso informed there was a presentation at my 50 th highschool reuinion concerning my father and the Grunion Story. I got alot of calls from my classmates telling me “outstanding and interesting article”. It seems wherever I go someone read the article and is interested in all the other Grunion Story details. Sometimes I feell like a celebrity but of course would rather have grown up with my father. I am still on cloud nine since being notified of the Grunion finding September of 2006. Looking forward to the Memorial Services @ Cleveland and finally closure.
Peter Thomas Stephens
Wanting to share that the Richmond Times Dispatch published today…
Wonderful story! Hopefully more to come this week. And also, because of the story in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette last week, we’re closer to finding our Jack Edwin Pancoast’s wife and son! (Here’s hoping)..
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-07-27-0092.html
Mary
Today the Journal Inquirer of Connecticut published the following.
Please visit http://www.journalinquirer.com
Click on Living and Nick Bonadies’ photo will come up.
Richard Tambling, our reporter in Hartford, wrote this story with much love, respect, and admiration. It was a pleasure working with you. Rich, thank you so much!
With kind personal regards, Mary Bentz
Yesterday in the Press-Register in Mobile, AL, George Werneth wrote an article for Edward Earl Knowles, Jr. Please visit http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/news/1218878140262010.xml&coll=3
For all families who have consented, I want to share that we are very close to having stories published for all of our crew now.
George, thank you very much for this wonderful article. I am eager to share it with all of our Grunion family. It is a pleasure working with you.
Best regards, Mary (If a reader has difficulty opening the link, please let me know)
David N Swartwood was the half=brother of my grandmother Rosa (Swartwood) Hebner.Have you been able to contact any other family members?
For Judy Gillmore:
Regarding David N. Swartwood, please contact me at ca.par@hotmail.com.
Thank you,
Mary Bentz
I would like to talk to the person who yesterday, August 18, called the Detroit Free Press regarding David N. Swartwood. Please email me at ca.par@hotmail.com
Thank you.
Mary Bentz
Most recently, over the past weeks, Tomahawk, Wisconsin’s newspaper, The Tomahawk Leader, has published an article in three installments entitled “TO HONOR THY COUNTRY - The Story of the USS Grunion and Tripoli’s Elmer T. Schumann. Journalist Cherie DuPlayee-Brown, Bruce and I agree, deserves a gold medal for this one.
Visit http://www.999info.net/Tomahawk.pdf. Cherie did a lot of research on her own, in addition to what Bruce and I have sent her. The first segment of the article resulted in a call from somebody who had actually worked on the relief crew for the Grunion in 1942 at Pearl Harbor before it left for the Aleutians. Cherie, we thank you so much and we thank the Tomahawk Leader for wanting our story.
Something else of interest, Cherie was in a local museum a few weeks ago. Two framed articles caught her eye – one was a list of local WWII veterans who died in battle. The other framed work was a list of names of those that died of accident or illness in the war. Schumann’s name appeared as unknown. Immediately she went to the manager and said, “I know this man and I know what happened to himâ€â€¦. So Elmer Schumann is no longer among the ‘unknown’ – she plans to bring his photograph to the museum with an explanation of how he was lost and now found.†Cherie, we hope to see you in Cleveland!
As of today, we have promise dates for next week from 4 other newspapers across the country, and if we can gain the interest of a newspaper in Philadelphia, we will have stories for everyone of our Grunion heroes!
After researching my family history, I came across the story of James Wallace Lyon, who was serving aboard the USS Grunion. We come from the same lineage and share a common ancestor. I want to thank everyone involved for their efforts to locate the USS Grunion and honor those who perished. God Bless you all.
To Larry Kirkland,
Enjoyed talking with you today concerning the Grunion and my father’s mother H. Thomas. I know you check the blog and wanted to give you my e-mail but forgot. E-mail is petebarbpete@aol.com. The way we talk on the phone this will save us some coins.
Peter T. Stephens
To Mary Bentz,
Iread your comment regarding the Tomahawk newspaper in Wisc. My dad was born there and my great grandparents owned a resort there in the early 1900’s. Can you tell me anymore about the origin of the story?
I am a retired US Navy Submarine Veteran and have spent more than 3 years of my life underwater in Nuclear Submarines. I have a great admiration for the sacrifices made by all submariners especially during the two World Wars. I am very happy that the search team has located the resting place of these American Hero’s.
The USS Wahoo SS-283 was found in October 2006 and now the USS Grunion SS-216. I hope these two discoveries give final closure to the families and friends of these brave men.
Congratulations to the search team, keep up the outstanding work.
Good luck.
GOD BLESS YOU for keeping alive the memories of your father, his crew and their boat. History owes you (and your financiers) a debt of gratitude. I have e-mailed the Discovery networks and encouraged them to produce a documentary!
Peace,
Jason Maier
Buffalo, NY
Congratulations! And a Job Well Done! We can never forget the men of the Silent Service who are still on their final patrol. The Crew of the Grunion can finally stand down.
Congratulations. Thank you for your hard work, and its an honor to know that such brave men fought so that my family and I can be free.
God bless all of you for bringing closure to the families, relatibes, and honor to the heroes of the USS Grunion and the United States of America. Overwhelming feelings…
My stepfather was stationed in Dutch Harbor and then Adak during WWII. He always spoke of it like it was yesterday. He was a Naval Sea CB. and built the Submarine base there at Adak. He always talked about how bitter the winter was and now how you almost have to have Congressional permission to get on the base. He was so proud of the work they did there protecting our borders. For a small town boy from Mobile, AL who had never seen snow, he felt he had done his part in the war.
I am so proud of your efforts to find your father and other families’ fathers,uncles,brothers, ect. I think that If I had been in your same place I would have done the same thing. We cannot leave our Veterans behind. Will you raise the ship or is it just good enough to know where it is? May God Bless. Ellen Heyer.Step- Daughter of Colma M. Davidson
I was contacted by your team with a warm, heartfelt, handwritten letter
several years ago asking if I could have been a relative of one of the USS Grunion
sailors. It turns out I was not a relative but your story touched me deeply. I have
been following your story ever since. To hear today that the Navy has confirmed
the find brought great joy, pride and a touch of sadness to my heart - for the brave
men on both sides of the struggle. I will continue to follow your story and wish
you all blessings and the best of luck.
I am deeply touched and intrigued by this story. I feel a little selfish…my father, Robert William James Saines, stoker, and his crewmates on the HMS Stubborn, were sunk for some eight hours, but managed to surface and survive. If that were not the case, I would not be here today.
I was fortunate enough in one of my visits and stays in San Diego, to contact the Veterans of Second World Wars there, submariners division, and contact was made between them and my father, who was invited to a submariners convention. It was a moment of great honour for my father. Submariners, as I learned from my father, are a unique group. Nationality means little.
Unfortunately, my father only managed to meet with the Vancouver chapter of the Cdn submariners veterans before illness overcame him.
He was lucky to have lived. If he were still alive, he would be utterly intrigued and moved by the fate of the USS Grunion.
On his behalf, I salute you all.
To all those involved,
Thank you to all of you! I have only a distant relative that died in world war II, but every time I read or hear a story of the men and women who served, and died for our country My heart sinks. At the same time if fills with pride to live in a country so great. I send you my very best wishs and only the best of luck in all that you do.
Dave
To the sons of Lt. Commander Abele:
Your father would be a very proud man to know he left fine men such as you. You never forgot or allowed the world to forget the honor and ultimate price your father brought to our country and paid for with his life. I am but 54 years of age and, obviously, was born following the war but please know I am so very proud of men like your father and his crew for ensuring we could then and can now live in a free country. Thank you for your father’s story and for the dedication and love you still have for your dad. Best Wishes. Carl L. Carter
It thrilled me to no end to read about your determination in finding the Grunion. My brother Leon C. Hodges was in the Navy. I can’t even begin to tell you about his career. I just know he was a very successful mechanic and served on the Forrestal. He was aboard the Forrestal when the plane crashed. He had just changed shifts with 2 other men (it took 2 to do his job) and both were killed in the fire. He passed away with heart complications 2 years ago and was in the process of writing a book about his life. His wife and daughters have not released the book to us yet. I so hope they will so we can have his written account about his travels in the Navy and the many places he visited after he retired.
May God richly bless you & your family and all the families that had loved ones on the Grunion. Trudy
Just saw the Navy has identified the wreck site as the Grunion. Great for the decdants of the sailors lost. Did anyone else notice on the News coverage pictures that the after battery Hatch is open? At a depth of 3500 feet, it most have gone down with the hatch open, OMG As a submariner nothing could be scarier, chills dun down my spine, just thinking of it.
Prayers for the relatives of those who served and there decendants.
Master Chief Graves.
Lt. Cmdr. Abele’s contribution to his country is evident in his fine sons. Good work gentlemen. May your children be so blessed.
I’m not sure if you’ve gotten any submariner help on some of the unanswered questions about Grunion’s attack and the subsequent sinking of the Grunion. For example, do you know about the several known problems the submarine force was having with torpedoes during this period? (Running deep, contact exploders mushrooming, magnetic exploder failing)? Those problems are more likely than failure to remove the “transportation pins from multiple torpedos and might explain the CO’s decision to surface. However doing so at close range and in the face of concentrated 8cm cannon and machinegun fire - especially when the stern of the target was apparently unprotected and the vessel’s propulsion disabled seems to suggest some other factor was present. Also, It would have had to be a very lucky shot to have sunk the submarine with a single round from an 8cm (3″) gun (and apparently without any secondary (torpedo) explosions). I served on USS Sea Robin (SS-407) and later commanded a nuclear SSBN. If I can help with your further investigations, please let me know. Meanwhile, you’ve done a tremendous service to the families of Grunion’s crew, to your father, and to the submarine service as a whole. Thank you. Sincerely, W.L. Coulter, Capt, USN (ret)
Closure is ALWAYS a good thing. My husband, sister and brother in-law are all retired from the Navy. My brother IS in the Navy, and I am so proud of them for serving our country as well as the 70 men that were aboard the USS Grunion. I was glad to be able to see when they were born and where they were from — thank you for that info. I had tears running down my face as I read each and every one of them.
As a Cold War submarine veteran ( USS Sculpin, SSN 590 ) and a member of the United States Submarine Veterans, Incorporated, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania ( Keystone ) Base, Bravo Zulu to the Brothers Abele and all who participated in the search and verification of the final resting place of the Grunion and her crew. We remember and honor all who served in the boats.
Hey,
I just read that the Navy has confirmed you found the location. Congratulations. I know this must be bittersweet for your family, but wow, what a service you have done for the families of those lost on the Grunnion. Congratulations on a job well done and tying up a loose end that the government considered to be a lost cause. Like the guy above me said.. OUTSTANDING!
And… may God grant you the peace you’ve been looking for.
I look at the sonar image and it looks more like a patrol vessel and not a submarine. The gap behind the superstructure is followed by what appears to be the ships funnel which would lend it to be more like a frigate, mine sweeper or some other small warship and not a submarine. My best wishes to the families but I don’t hold at all with the theory that you have found Grunion.
As I read the stories from relatives and friends of the crew of the Grunion it made me reflect on the time I spent in the submarine service and all those I had served with or met during my enlistment. Having joined the sub service in 1962 I served on the USS Jallao (SS 368),and USS Simon Bolivar(SSBN 641).While attending sub school at New London Conn. I recall all the murals hanging on the walls in the school of those subs that were lost at sea due to known enemy action or those listed as did not return. The Grunion in the latter group.
Every so often we read of other subs that were lost in peacetime or war time being located and identified which has helped bring some sort of closure to their families and friends.So again congratulations to the search team and continued success in their endeavors.
Your Father would be proud of you. God Bless.
Its good that you’ve been able to provide some closure to the families, even though we may never know the cause. Based on my limited knowledge of all of the facts, and what I do know about sub operations, it sure seems that the Grunion was sunk in battle with the Japanese.
These guys are heroes in my opinion. May they rest in peace until the last days when the sea gives up her dead.
Well done to the search team. Not knowing is the hardest cost of war - at least these families can now accept that their men died fighting the common enemy.
Because my Uncle (Ralph Kriese) was a Sea Bee during the period of which the USS Grunion was lost, and because our family lost a pilot, (Eugene Jones) during the same period, the discovery of the Grunion touches me deeply. I am impressed by the determination of those who spent so much effort, time and money to the search and discovery. Our pilots plane was never located so this gives us hope that one day his plane will be found.
I hope for all families, that somehow, to know the location of this loss brings comfort.
MaryCannon Apodaca
Outstanding work in locating our brothers at sea. Thank you so very much for ensuring our fallen brothers will be returned home. “Fair Winds and Following Seas”
Chief Zee out
Hello, I just wanted to thank the team for their hard work and perseverance. I remember reading about USS Grunion in some of the books I have read in the past, and am very glad to hear that we now know where she and her crew rest, and a little more about her final days/hours. Thanks for never giving up, and god bless her brave crew.
It sounds like perhaps USS Grunion was a victim of our notoriously poor torpedoes of that early wartime period, since had they worked, the option to surface and use the deck gun may not have been considered necessary, although we may never know the whole story, this seems to be one possible explanation. One has to wonder where the missing bow section is too, hopefully, it can be located and examined for more clues of what may have happened.
Thanks,
Outstanding. My Dad was a diesel boat sub commander and as you guys know they were a very special breed. Good luck.
You sons do our fathers proud. Thank you.
Thank you for all your hard work and finding the USS Grunion. My father’s younger brother was lost on the sub and they never knew what happened to him. My father is 85 yrs. old and all these years wondered. My father was at Pearl Harbor the day it was attacked and stayed in the Navy for 5 years. It is good for him to have closure before his time is up. Thank You from the Youngman family, originally from Cleveland Ohio, now in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Dear Tina, I met the Youngman family this weekend and have worked with Betty Kreuger to have some articles published in some Ohio papers. If you wish to email me your mailing address, I will send you a copy of a newspaper from Louisiana that has a photo of Ralph Junior Youngman on the cover. It would be nice to show your Dad. Also, I could send you a dvd of the Today Show that aired last Sept. and a copy of USA Today that published for us in March.
Mary Bentz
ca.par@hotmail.com
Ralph Youngman was my dad’s older brother, not younger. It is great we can get information on family members I did not know but was a brother of my Dad. Anyone else who knows Ralph’s family, please leave a comment, I will check often. Thank you
Tina
good luck, and god bless you.
John Stewart Clift” is my sisters and my Uncle. He is my fathers” Fielden Samuel Stewart’s ” youngest brother. My sisters and I lost our father also when we were very young. We have been insearch of his brothers and sisters . Our Mother Caroline Stewart told us about John Henry as we knew him, that he went down in the sub Grunion during the war. We only found out about John being “adopted” four years ago through a cousin in Blue Mounds Kansas, that told us he had been adopted when our grandmother died.My husband and I visted the sub marine Bat Fish in Muskogee Ok. close to where we live. Johns name is on the plaque for the Grunion. I was surprised to find it there, that was a real treat. I am sorry we did not get to attend the reunion for our Uncle, if we had known we would have came. I do want to add, a loveones death is never forgotten even when you did not touch their face for you know they are a part of you that live on to tell the story even though it may be slight.
Thank you for letting me post this. I pray for all the familys of the Grunion. This was a long time coming. And to find out around the Christmas Holiday is wonderfu.12-14-08
Marion “Stewart” Hefner
Checotah, Oklahoma
ghefner@valornet.com
Marion, I have sent an email to you at the ghefner email address listed here. I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Mary
God speed and God Bless, I know Commander Abele (God rest his soul) its proud of the job you have donne same for the family menbers of the crew.
God Bless you all for the excellent job you did in bringing closure to so many people who probably believed they would never know.
Joe
Blessings for your love of family and country. Highest regards to all involved.
Hi Administrators,Thanks for the commendable work to lead and find what happened to the USS Grunion.I wish all such efforts great success.There are many more missing vessels, airplanes and circumstances to be solved.Keep up the good work.
Bye for now
Kiron Manuel
It is wonderful what you have done. Not only for your own family but for others. My grandfather served in WWII in alaska and told me many stories of his time there. It is very important to me to know events of WWII in alaska to know what my papa and his fellow soldiers went through (even if it is just a portion). So just thank you for every single effort that you and your brother have ever made tofind your father and his submates. GOD BLESS THE USA!!!!!
I served on the USS Requin SSR481 from 2/55 until 12/58. Requin, now a museum boat in Pittsburg, was not commissioned until the mid 40’s but still, very much like the Gunion. I read every word on the website and wanted the Abele family to know what a warm feeling I had as I read the article and looked at the pictures. I am sure that the entire 70 man crew is very proud of your efforts to locate them. God Bless you for all you have done.
Doug Nunnery (TM2-SS)
Your father would have been proud. What a heartwarming story!
Rick Wieda
As a fellow marriner and avid history buff I would like to say hoorah to you. this is an exciting time in marritme history to find somthing of this nature. I cant even bagan to know what you and the familys of those brave 77 are feeling now. My only hope is it brought some form of closure for you all. Was wondering tho knowing sunkin vessles and the age of thi one . Will there be a partial raising or will it be left there? Once again kudoos and congradulations to all involved..
Mark January 1, 2009 | 6:45 pm
Hi, I saw a comment regarding the original translation possably not giving a correct interpretation of the original Japanese. I currently live in Japan ( I’m British) and having done my time in the service as did my father and grandfather would like to make the offer of having the original Japanese looked at by some professional translaters I know here in Japan. If it would help, I could have the original text looked at by a few people to give you perhaps a better understanding on what was written by witness’s.I also have a working understanding of Japanese so could help them to correctly translate any terminology.Oh, also I’m pretty sure I can get this done at no cost, depending on the amount of original text you have.Some of the people who would look at this are ex navy and merchant seamen who now teach at a college preparing students for a career in coast guard and merchant navys, so they have the background to recognise what they are reading and make some sense of it in English. The offer is there if you want to take it up, please contact me.
Bruce, Just reviewed the new Memorial DVD and it was excellent and brought back the emotions I had from that great weekend in Cleveland. This is DVD will be icing on the cake for my presentation in Charleston. Thank you and your team for another job well done.
Pete Stephens
If anyone can help we need a birthdate on Ralph Junior Youngman and I live in NM. Does anyone know where I can check on line or write to so I can complete my Uncle Ralph’s information. I don’t know where to start. Email me @ macarena51@aol.com
Thank you,
I have ordered the DVD and book for my Father, Ralph’s brother, we could not be at the memorial, so now we can, I can’t wait to receive it.
Tina
Tina, your mother is next of kin, I suggested before that perhaps you would be able to have access to his records at St. Louis or get a copy of his birth certificate from the state of Ohio. I’m glad you are pursuing this because it would be great to have it for his Eternal Patrol Page.
Best,
Mary
Jim Lucas called me early this morning to inform us that Russell Dieselberg, uncle of our Louis Henry “Red” Doell, Jr. passed away quietly in his sleep yesterday, February 26, at the age of 97. Russell shared many photos and memories of his beloved nephew and it was with his help that we are able to connect with so many who knew and loved “Red”. I am told that until his heart attack last fall Russelll was living his life to the fullest.
My father, the late Robert(Bob) Booth of Westerly,RI helped construct USS GRUNION at Electric Boat in Groton. He was recently discharged from the US Army due to a disabling injury and was classifed 4-F. So, his part of the war effort was to build subs. Bob was on trial crews and ‘”shook down the boats” prior to their being accepted by the Navy. Bob, being 6′-6″ tall, & in his 20’s related how he got into fist fights at local bars with sailors because, “why a big guy like him wasn’t in the service!”BTW, I spent 25 years in the Navy & Navy Reserve & couldn’t qualify for subs due to a bad eye. I now live in New London,CT & can see Electric Boat across the Thames River from my home.
Please visit http://historicalbiographies.suite101.com/topiclist/article.cfm/samuel_artist_templeton_of_the_uss_grunion
for an aricle written by Ron Falconberry, an online journalist for Suite1 101.com. He is a very talented writer who has written for our 3 Tennesee connections to Grunion.(Parziale, Templeton, Sampsel)
I received the DVD & now the book, the DVD was very moving to me. I did not know my Uncle Ralph Youngman aboard the USS Grunion, but having the information to give my father, his brother, is wonderful. It is a keepsake our family can add to our family treasures.
Thank you again for all the hard work and God Bless you all.
I received the book to go alone with the DVD and I thank you again for all you have done.
I am awaiting information from the Ohio Dept of Vital Statistics on getting Ralph Youngman’s birthdate.
Mary, I will be in touch, hopefully with the information.
Tina
Just returned from Charleston, SC from a reunion for my ship the USS Marias (AO-57) and four other ships. I gave a presentation on the Grunion Search using the latest DVD which held interest and was greatly accepted by the Navy personnel attending. This was the perfect setting since some of the attendees served on submarines. I just received a call today from one of them which was so impressed that as soon as he returned home he researched the Grunion in a submarine book he had for years and found it to be lost but no details. Had a lot of discussion and questions after the presentation. No one could believe that the Abele Brothers took on this great task and of course our great Sub Ladies research. The presentation went so well that I was asked to MC the Memorial Services for our passed shipmates. When it came to reading the names I wish the GREAT Mary Bentz could have been there to assist me.
While touring Fort Sumter we were informed that not only were the first shots of the Civil War fired here but also the first submarine torpedo was fired and sunk one of the ships in Charleston Harbor.
Peter Thomas Stephens
I just finished watching the Grunion Memorial DVD for the third time; as well as family members who were not able to attend the memorial got to see it. I learn something new each time I watch it. I am so impressed with the love and time that went into it. It brought back all the emotion of our trip to Cleveland. Thank you so much to my Grunion family. God bless all of you.
Carole Boo-Harrington
Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog.
Cheers! Sandra. R.
Seeking information regarding probable crew member of USS Grunion—Bernard Tullier. Is there a listing of missing crewmen? thank you and great job!
I rode two diesel boats from 1966 to 1968 in the south china sea. Both of these boats were of the same vintage as the Grunion. As long as I live my respect and admiration for the crew of the Grunion and any other deisel/nuclear boat sailors alive or dead will never, ever fade.
I don’t know who wrote this, but thought it was appropriate for our herores.
Heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done regardless of the consequences.
I was able to visit the USS Cod in Cleveland Ohio recently. Being a sister ship to the USS Grunion, I toured the sub & wondered what the guys did on a daily basis & how they moved around the small spaces & slept. I am glad i was able to see it.
Good Morning,
Tonight on HBO at 2100 there is a documentary entitled War Torn 1861-2010 that chronicles the aftermath of war and in particular, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Anyone interested in knowing more about this disorder, should watch this show. It is said to be very well done.
As a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner who has worked the veterans over the last three years, I can attest to this aftermath. Veterans return to their families broken, sometimes just a little, sometimes a lot. They won’t tell their families about their wounds, but their families see it nevertheless. They return changed. And although some get better, they never fully recover.
Those who don’t go into combat, undergo the same basic training, which ingrains in the soldier things that most civilians never should have to know. It changes how one thinks about another. In this, all veterans return feeling alienated to some degree. We can help them by reminding them that as our family and friends, they are a part of us. And we’re not letting go
And for the families, like ours, who have suffered losses resulting from combat, a day like today can be bitter- filled with what if’s. I myself feel so much sorrow in how life could have been if my grandfather had returned to his family.
So today in particular, I’m thinking about grandpa Welch. I pray that you rest in peace and want you to know that you will always have a home in my heart.
Love,
Deborah Beth Stone RNP
ENRM VA Hospital, Bedford, Mass
Mary Bentz told me about the finding of the Grunion and the research being done. It’s interesting and thoughtful for the families, and once again reminds us of the sacrifices made by our service men and women. We are thankful to them and to the the people working on the Grunion project. Keep up the good work!
Thanks,
Grayson O’Kane